Keta arvanitasit paskan qene per bela..Kur u shperngulen ,me siguri, terhoqen kemben zvarre sepse qe atehere shqiptari ben cmos per te marre rruget e botes..
Keta arvanitasit paskan qene per bela..Kur u shperngulen ,me siguri, terhoqen kemben zvarre sepse qe atehere shqiptari ben cmos per te marre rruget e botes..
Never take life seriously. Nobody gets out alive anyway
Pse arbereshet ne Itali e kane ruajtur gjuhen shqipe dhe ndihen krenare per prejardhjen e tyre. Qeveria italiane ju lejon mbajtjen e flamurit, shkollimin ne gjuhen shqipe, kremtimin e festes kombetare, kishat, emrat e rrugeve dhe te fshatrave, bustet e Skenderbeut dhe figurave te te tjera te shquara.
Ndersa arvanitasit ne Greqi jane thuajse asimiluar teresisht dhe sipas taborrit progrek ketu ne forum, ata (arvanitasit) as nuk duan qe te barazohen me qenjen shqiptar ?! A thua kaq te keqia ju paska sjelle atyre qenja shqiptar apo ka ndodhur dicka tjeter me ta?
Pse?
Kush jeton ne Greqi a mund te na shpjegoje dicka me shume?
P.sh. A kane arvanitasit radio, gazete, reviste, emisione ne televizon?
A kane ata nje kishe te tyren, sic e kane greket dhe te tjeret anekend botes?
A kane ata nje organizimi kulturor apo dicka tjeter?
A kane ata ndonje faqe ne internet (shqip dhe greqisht)?
Etj.etj.
Gjithe keto pyetje me linden ndersa po vazhdoj te degjoj nje radio ne gjuhen maqedone qe transmeton permes internetit nga Greqia (Radio Banitsa).
Cudi maqedonet ndjehen krenare per origjinen e tyre, ndersa Tannhauserat na thone se arvanitasit nuk duan te quhen shqiptare.
Ndryshuar për herë të fundit nga DYDRINAS : 15-12-2006 më 16:43
Siq e thashë edhe më herët njoh një arvanitas që e takoj shpesh dhe ankohet shumë për racizmin e grekëve, e tregon se se arvanitësit (një pjesë ) ende flasin shqip, por sa me sa janë këta dy taborre nuk e dimë e vetëm mund të spekulojmë.
Kete klasifikim qe ben ti me lart, shume kollaj mund ta besh edhe per ata "shqiptaret" qe dine te flasin shqip rrjedhshem dhe jane lindur e rritur ne Shqiperi. Dhe "asimilimi" i ketyre te dyteve nuk eshte i lidhur me rrethana historike, eshte i lidhur me nje perzgjedhje te vetedijshme si njerez.Postuar më parë nga Tannhauser
Albo
Tanhauser lexoje pak ate me poshte dhe me jep nje koment se eshte e mundur, se nuk e flet anglishten,et me falesh dhe do ta sjell ne shqip, flitet per shkollen e pare ne Greqi
Referencing a Greek scientist, A. Vakalopullos, as well as an authentic document signed by graduating students of that Greek School, Ko‡ollari presents the astonishing evidence that of the 8 students in the first class, either 4 or 5 were Albanians: "Among the eight names...there are the names of four Albanians and, maybe, even of a fifth one, about whom we are not quite so sure - Kostandin Apostoli from Permeti, Jani Anastasi from Kelcyra, Jani Athanasi from Vithkuqi, Vasil Xhelio, the Fratarian, Jani Zoi from Zagoria (we are not able to certify if it is Zagoria of Gjirokastra or Zagoria of Janina)." pp.172-173.
Ndryshuar për herë të fundit nga kocollari : 20-01-2007 më 06:50
Pak a shume verteton se deri 100 vjet me pare cdo gje shkonte jo dhe aq keq per arvanitasit e Greqise dhe u krenonin per identitetin e tyre.
Ndersa nga atehere cfare ka ndodhur qe keta shqiptare te fshihen ashtu sic thua ti. Ne cfare konkluzioni ke dalur?? Apo i pelqen te jene ose te quhen greke dhe i vjen mire qe shahen vellezerit e tyre te gjakut??? Kane humbur interes ne rrenjet e tyre ( disa nga to i kishin ruajtur per 1000 mos me shume vjet)Pranoje qe propaganda e ashper dhe e felliqur 100 vjecare greke dhe ajo serbe e fshehur gjoja nen fene ortodokse( rusia, franca etje etj) ka bere punen e vet dhe c'te bejne ato shqiptare tani, do jetojne edhe ato....
Ndryshuar për herë të fundit nga kocollari : 20-01-2007 më 07:11
E njoh anglishten, kam Lexuar dhe A[postollos] Vakallopoulos, edhe Kocollarin. Vakallopoulos nuk thote se 4-5 nga studentet ishin shqiptare. Kete e ka interpretuar keshtu Kocollari. Qe del nje student nga permeti apo nga Kelcyra (per ate kohe) nuk do te thote se detyrimisht ishin shqiptare. Pse te jet Jani Anastasi shqiptar? Nejse, A. Vakalopoulos nuk e percaktoi etnine se ne ate perjudhe ata qe studjonin ishin ata qe kishin para. Keshtu qe mund te ishte nje shqiptar i pasur apo nje grek. Dhe sigurisht nuk jane arvanitas. Arvanitasit ishin ne More, Attike dhe Thive-Vioti.
Une nuk thashe se fshihen. Thashe se nuk interesohen, per shume arsye. Dhe duhet te kuptosh nje gje, se arvanitet nuk u ndien asnjehere ndryshe nga greket.Ndersa nga atehere cfare ka ndodhur qe keta shqiptare te fshihen ashtu sic thua ti.
E thua kete nga mendja apo keshtu e thote propaganda progreke? Nuk po them propaganda antishqiptare!Une nuk thashe se fshihen. Thashe se nuk interesohen, per shume arsye. Dhe duhet te kuptosh nje gje, se arvanitet nuk u ndien asnjehere ndryshe nga greket.
Pse nuk ka ndodhur ky fenomen me ortodokset maqedonas dhe bullgare qe popullonin dikur veriun e Greqise se sotme?
Pse popullsite e tjera ortodokse qe jetonin ne Greqi ju nenshtruan nje terrori dhe shperngulje masive te pergjakshme?
Po me arvanitasit cfare ndodhi? Apo shoqeria greke u tregua "dashamirese" me ta dhe i kurseu?
Pse arbereshet ne Itali e ruajten dhe e ruajne ende ne ditet e sotme krenarine e tyre te origjines dhe po te veresh ne internetka me mijera arbereshe qe jetojne ne SHBA, Argjentine apo shtete te tjera te Europes qe bejne te pamunduren per te gjetur prejardhjen e tyre familjare.
Pse ata shqiptaret e Ukraines e flasin ende gjuhen shqipe? Po shqiptaret qe jetuan e jetojne ne Rumani e Bullgari, ne Kroaci e vende e tjera vazhdojne te ruajne krenarine e tyre te origjines?
Sa dhe si jane te organizuar arvanitasit ne shoqerine e sotme greke?
Ne fund te fundit perse shoqeria greke ka frike nga njohja e se drejtes se nje popullsie per te shprehur lirisht identitetin e tyre, per te folur lirisht ne gjuhen e tyre, per te respektuar festat e tyre kombetare etj?
Tan, llogjika juaj eshte per tu admiruar. Kur vjen tek arvanitasit, je i prere dhe thua qe ishin ne More, Attike dhe Thive-Vioti, ndersa kur vjen tek etnia e disa nxenesve nga Permeti, apo Kelcyra kercen tek dyshimi, hmmmm.... ka mundesi te kete qene shqiptar por edhe grek??? Pse kjo llogjike Tan??? hmmmm...... thuaje ti me mire vella. Derisa ne ishim pronaret e tokave ne ato zona dhe ju greket vinit dhe ishit thjesht bujqerit tane ose me shkurt yzmeqaret tane, pa diskutim qe ishim ne qe dergonim femijet tane neper shkolla, si thua ti Tano?? Ishim apo jo ne te zotet e atyre tokave, ishim apo jo ne ne pozicion me te pershtatshem ne ato kohera per arsye te lidhjeve tona me te forta me Anadollin. Ne nje moment e perdorni lidhjen tone me Anadollin si shkak per zhdukjen tone nga dheu, dhe me vone na ofendoni duke na mohuar punen tone, kontributin tone ne Greqine e sotme dhe ne pergjithesi, me nje perbuzje qe une nuk mundem ta kuptoj. E kupton ti Tan??? Mendohu pak. Nuk eshte nevoja qe te flasesh me disa injorante shqiptare, dhe o burra keshtu jane te gjithe keto, trungu shqiptare po rritet, nuk e le njeri te pritet me, nuk ka cfare t'i beje as greku as serbi, evropa dhe amerika nuk ka me interes tek dokrrat e pseudo-historianeve.
Nuk eshte mire qe te dyshohet per cdo gje qe pretendohet nga Shqiptaret dhe te hapet rruge per cdo gje qe pretendohet nga greket, me fal eh, por kemi te njejtat dokumenta perpara. Ketu une po flisja per nje teme ku Arvanitasit sipas meje jane shqiptare, ti ku i klasifikon arvanitasit?? Ne familjen greke??Flasim per kombesi vella dhe jo fe ose shtetesi, ky keqkuptim i joti ndodh vetem ne nje mentalitet grek, qe eshte shume abstrakt.
Njeriu e humb paksa interesin kur s'ka rrugezgjidhje dhe i ka plasur shpirti duke folur me kokeqepa si disa racista greke, per fat te keq tonin dhe te tyrin.
Tan, e pranon qe ka pasur dhe ka racizem ne Greqi ndaj Shqipetarve(cam, arvanitas, shqiptare, arnaut, geg, tosk, lab)?????? Pergjigju thjesht, mos nderro teme.
Po pres
REPORT ON THE ALBANIANS OF GREECE BY THE COMMISSION OF THE EUROPEAN COMMUNITY
A group of researchers of the European Community visited Greece from the 4th
to the 10th of October 1987 to study the existence of the Albanian element
and the preservation of its ethnicity and language.
The trip was organized by the "European Bureau" to study the lesser-used
languages, observed by the Commission of the European Community.
Composition of the Group:
Antonio Belushi Italy
Ricardo Alvares Spain
E. Angel France
Kolom Anget Spain
Havier Boski Spain
Onom Falkona Holland
Volfgang Jeniges Belgium
Robert Marti France
Stefan Moal France
Kol O'Cinseala Ireland
Joseph San Sokasao Spain
Object of the trip:
Research in 300 Albanian communities in Greece.
Aim:
To help European representatives on their visit to get in touch with the
Albanian people in Greece, who are currently speaking Albanian, which is not
taught in Greek schools.
To assess the reaction of various parties and other institutions to the
issue of protection of linguistic minorities existing in Greece, which are
not recognized at present even below a minimum criterion as is the case with
the Albanians, etc.
Views of the main parties:
The "New Democracy" Party:
We talked with Michael Papakonstantinu, Efstakios Paguhos, Nikola Martis,
Joanis Vulfefis and Kaeti Papannastasion. Here are some of their answers:
"There is no problem of Albanian language in Greece. If we put linguistic
problems on the table, we would create very great problems for the Greek
state. If the Albanian language is spoken, it is spoken only in families. No
opinion can be fully expressed on this issue. There has never been room for
the Albanians in our problems. Your mission is very delicate. Do not
complicate things. Watch out! Minority issues will lead to war in Europe. We
can in no way help at these moments. Likewise, we do not want to give the
impression of Albanian presence in Greece. This problem does not exist for
us."
The "PASOK" Party:
Questions were addressed to Dr. Jorgos Sklavunas and Manolis Azimakis. Their
answers:
"We do not deem it necessary for the Albanian and other minorities to learn
their mother tongues because the language they speak is not a language.
There are no Albanian territories in Greece. There are only Greek
territories where Albanian may also be spoken. He who does not speak our
language does not belong to our race and our country."
The Ministry of Culture:
Having listened to the questions, Doc. Athina Sipirianti said:
"To solve a problem, you have always to set up a commission. We do not have
the possibility of dealing with the problem you are raising. Your experience
will be necessary for what we shall do in the future. Your visit is a great
stimulus to us."
The Pedagogical Department:
Dr. Trinnidafilotis' answer was very cold:
"There is no teaching of Albanian. What you are saying is a political rather
than a cultural problem. I have nothing else to add."
The Commission of the Independent Magazine Anti:
Answers:
"Borders between states are not fair. This interest in minorities in Greece
can hide interests of domination by other states. Linguistic minorities,
namely, the Albanian minority, have no right whatsoever. In Greece, there
are only Greeks."
The above statements and the appeal to the Speaker of the Greek Parliament
and the party leaders are clear evidence of the presence of Albanians, Turks
and Macedonian Slavs in Greece, who still speak their mother tongues.
According to research done by scholars, there are about 700 Albanian
villages in Greece, whose Albanian ethnicity the Greeks deny. It is a
well-known fact that national minority members in Greece have all been
subject to intense, organized assimilation, which the Greeks, while ignoring
their distinct ethnicity, justify by pointing to their Orthodox religion, as
though religion were the criterion to determine one's nationality. However,
there are also Greeks who contradict the absurd claims of the Greek
authorities. In a study on the subject, Professor of International Law and
current Vice-President of the European Court of Human Rights, Christos
Rozakis, acknowledges the ethnic character of minorities in Greece.
In view of Greek domestic policies on national minorities, it is regrettable
to observe that an EU member like Greece has so far failed to be a role
model for the other Balkan countries, that its example in this area adds to
the Balkans' already tarnished image as a result of Serbia's policies, that
though a NATO member, despite the government's 'efforts' to keep a so-called
balance, Greece opposed NATO's air war against Serbia under the threadbare
pretext of its religious and traditional historical ties with the Serbs and
tacitly supported Milosevic's policy of genocide and ethnic cleansing in
Kosova. In this campaign of solidarity with Milosevic when the NATO bombing
began, even Archbishop Christodoulos of Athens hastened to join Patriarch
Alexii of Moscow, head of the Russian Orthodox Church, to call for support
for Serbia.
It is also a pity that nothing has so far changed in Greece's nationalistic
and theocratic policies since the 1944-1945 period when the Greeks were the
first in southeastern Europe after World War II to perpetrate genocide. They
massacred and ethnically cleansed Albanians from Chamouria, an
Albanian-inhabited region in the northwest of today's Greek state.
It stands to reason that their religious brethren, the Serbs, would
naturally draw on the Greek experience of the ethnic cleansing of Albanians
and extensively use it against the Kosova Albanians in the year 1999.
The way the Greeks respond to the national minority issue signifies the
existence of a strong, unhealthy nationalistic trend, raised to state policy
level, which runs counter to the general tendency in the other countries of
the European Union. The official 1951 census in Greece indicated that ethnic
minorities in the country constituted 2.6 to 3.8 per cent of the total
population. Just as in the case of other non-Greeks, the number of
Albanians, too had radically been reduced in the census. According to other
sources, there were at least as many as 350,000 Albanians at that time.
Slavic speakers in Greece today number up to 300,000 though the majority of
them had to flee during and after World War and the Civil War. Facts are
stubborn. Nevertheless, these figures that have been drastically reduced,
have always been suppressed whenever they have been brought up. Worth
mentioning are also the following facts, symptomatic of Greek intolerance in
the area of national minorities: A few years ago, death threats against
Anastasia Karakasidou, a Guggenheim Fellowship scholar at Harvard
University, first came from the Greek community in the United States and
then in Greece because she had described the presence of a Slavic speaking
Macedonian community in Greece in her book "Fields of Wheat, Hills of
Shrubs." Almost at the same time, Christos Sideropulos, leader of "the Human
Rights movement in Macedonia" faced trial on charges of "spreading false
information that might cause disturbance in the international relations of
Greece." His guilt had been a statement to the effect that the ethnic
Macedonians faced curbs on their language and culture by a state, which
denies their existence.
Though there is no denying the fact that Greece is a full-fledged member of
the European Union, its behavior, past and present, which has little to do
with Western values, is helping an increasing number of people realize that
the country is a far cry from the rest of the EU members as far as
mentality, culture, as well as religious and national tolerance are
concerned. Greece is also distinct from the other EU member countries as far
as its domestic legislation is concerned. For instance, citizenship,
ethnicity and religion are deliberately confused in Greece. The Greek
Constitution outlaws proselytism. There are also provisions, especially
Article 20 of the Greek Citizenship Law in Greece, under which sanctions,
prison terms and denial of Greek citizenship are imposed on religious
minority members, accused of involvement in so-called activities against
Hellenism. Irrespective of the fact that Greece has repealed Article 19 of
the Greek Citizenship Law under international pressure, which entitled the
government to deprive those regarded as allogenes [Greece's natives of
non-Greek origin] of Greek citizenship, it has not made the Article
retroactive in order to restore citizenship to those who have unjustly lost
it.
Financial Times quotes Takis Michas, social affairs specialist at the Athens
daily Eleftherotypia, as saying: "Greece is an inward-looking society.
Orthodox values reinforce that mentality. Orthodoxy sees the West as a
threat, a place where conspiracies are hatched against it," a mind frame of both Greeks and Serbs, which draws its source from the ancient split between western and eastern Christendom.
Whereas British historian Norman Davies writes in his book "Europe A History": "From the time of the Crusades, the Orthodox looked on the west as the source of subjugation worse than the infidel." This mindset is made manifest in the United States, too. According to recent news reports, Archbishop Spyridon, the head of the Greek Orthodox Church in the United States, who has spent most of his life in Europe, has been accused of trying to keep the church inaccessible to members who feel more American than Greek. Spyridon, who is the first American-born leader of the Greek Orthodox church in this country, says he works to protect the church's Byzantine traditions, proving to be one of those Greeks who are still living in the Byzantine empire. As Jeane Carthner of the newspaper Liberacion points out: "A few years ago, the Greeks were enemies of the Albanians, Macedonians and Bulgarians. They are constant enemies of the Turks, while now they have become enemies of the Americans, the British, the French, the Germans and the rest of the world." "The West is full of enemies," the president of Greece, Costis Stephanopolous, has been quoted as saying. Scholars consider such statements "a reminder of emotions that are deeply felt in the eastern Balkans. The common link is the Orthodox religious tradition. It is a tie that cements the alliance with Serbia ."
Such a mentality that has been conducive to national and religious bigotry
has prompted analysts to draw the logical conclusion that Greek presence in
the EU and NATO, etc. is an anomaly and a paradox. Greece continues to be an
awkward partner or indeed a black sheep in the European Union even today.
Time and again, it creates false problems for Europe with its whimsical
behavior towards its neighbors. This conclusion is not a thing of the past,
of the early 1990s, as another Greek, Loukas Tsoukalis, of the European
Institute of the London School of Economics, says.
Such being the case, it is wrong, at least in the foreseeable future, to
regard Greece as the bridge that will link the neighboring countries to
Europe. This EU member country, which regards every criticism of its
handling of domestic affairs, the minority and religious issues in
particular, as a West-inspired, hostile step to destabilize the country,
cannot play such a role unless it improves its image, which is still low by
European standards, and gives up sowing the seeds of religious and national
intolerance.
Far from trying to find the culprit abroad, Greece should mend its ways at
home.
Regullat e Postimit
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