Arvanitasit, të parët tanë që emigruan në Greqi ne Mesjete!

[Tannhauser]

Une, pasi jame marre shume me ceshtjen e Arvanitasve (bile i kam dhe ne familje pasi nje kusheriri im i pare eshte martuar me nje arvanitase ne Korinth), do t'i vendosja ne keto kategori ne lidhje me ndjenjat e tyre perballe origjines shqiptare se tyre.

1. Arvanitas qe e njohin origjinen e tyre shqiptare dhe interesohen per historine e tyre (Ketu vendos A. Kolen dhe nje pjese te sillogut te Arvanitasve).

2. Arvanitas qe e mohojne origjinen e tyre shqiptare dhe shume here kane shfaqur ndjenja antishqiptare (ketu vendos Kosta Birin dhe Maria Deden dhe nje pjese tjeter te sillogut).

3. Arvanitas qe e njohin origjinen e tyre shqiptare por nuk i intereson dhe shume, duke e konsideruar nje rastesi te historise.

4. Arvanitas qe as e njohin origjinen e tyre dhe as i intereson ta mesojne (qe fatkeqsisht eshte shumica e arvanitasve)

[alibaba]

Kurse grekët janë vetëm një lloj: Ata që asimiluan arvanitësit a u morën tokën kulturën shtetin etj etj

Njoh dhe unë ca arvanitas këta janë nga Çamëria por jo çamë por arvanitas apo siç thonë ata vetë, arbëreshë. Pyes dikënd këndo këtu në forum nëse ka ndonjë informatë se a ka arbëreshë andej nga qendra e Greqisë të cilët ndjejnë veten arbëreshë dhe e duan këtë identitet.

[J-X]

kjo qe thua tannhauser ndodh vetem ne greqi sepse keshtu eshte i koinonia ne greqi, po nuk mohove se nga vjen dhe po the qe nuk ke lidhje me greket ata te kane inat keshtu qe doapo nuk do disa here do ta mohosh qe te ndihesh mire ne ate vend te qenit qe quhet greqi.

[alibaba]

mire ne ate vend te qenit qe quhet greqi.

Jo
vendin mos e shaj,
se asht toka jonë e shenjtë,
tokë që na e premtoi perëndia
e do ta kthejmë kur të vijë koha.

[J-X]

Jo
vendin mos e shaj,
se asht toka jonë e shenjtë,
tokë që na e premtoi perëndia
e do ta kthejmë kur të vijë koha.

e ke gabim nuk te premtoj perendia gje toke ty si shqiptar, ti e gjete e punove e bere gati dhe njerzit e perendis ta moren ate toke. sepse ti besoje tek olimpi dhe atere toka nuk ta premtonte zoti si puna e hebrenjve. mos i ngatro gjerat

[J-X]

sa per temen arvanitasit jetojn ne atiki por ama sipas historis ne kohen e lasht iliret ndertuan murret e akropolit dhe punime te tjera atje dhe si shperblim nga mbreti helen u dha krahina qe quheshe atiki.
tani pse ska mundesi qe ata ilir qe ndejten atje u quajten arvanitas? pse sjan vendas?

[Baptist]

A mund te na sjell dikush fakte ne lidhje me emigrimin e Arbaneshtëve ne Greqi?

p.s.:
Per ata qe nuk e kan te qarte kerkesen, -e kisha fjalen per fakte!

[alibaba]

ke gabim nuk te premtoj perendia gje toke ty si shqiptar, ti e gjete e punove e bere gati dhe njerzit e perendis ta moren ate toke. sepse ti besoje tek olimpi dhe atere toka nuk ta premtonte zoti si puna e hebrenjve. mos i ngatro gjerat
__________________

Ne e humbëm Bizantin sepse tradhëtuam zotërat tonë të lashtë dhe filluam të adhurojmë një jahudi të kryqëzuar.

[BlackEagle]

Nuk jam dakort me ç'thuhet se Arvanitasit jane emigrantet epare shqiptar ne greqi. Duke iu referuar disa zbulimeve historike kjo qe thuhet se Arvanitasit kane qene emigrant ne greqi nuk qendron aspak.

Per tu lene dhe juve te kuptoni se perse i them keto gjera po bashkangjis ketu artikuj te marre nga nje tjeter web, ku flitet per prejardhjen e shqiptareve te sotem dhe per trojet qe ata kane patur qe nga lashtesia e deri em sote.

Me vjen keq qe shkrimi eshte ne Anglisht dhe jo ne shqip, por per ata qe e flasin anglishten nuk do te jete veshtire qe ta kuptojne.

History > Origins

The earliest settlers of Albania
The question of the origin of the Albanians is still a matter of controversy among the ethnologists. A great many theories have been propounded in solution of the problem relative to the place from which the original settlers of Albania proceeded to their present home. The existence of another Albania in the Caucasus, the mystery in which the derivation of the name "Albania" is enshrouded, and which name, on the other hand, is unknown to her people, and the fact that history and legend afford no record of the arrival of the Albanians in the Balkan Peninsula, have rendered the question of their origin a particularly difficult one.

But, however that may be, it is generally recognized today that the Albanians are the most ancient race in southesatern Europe. All indications point to the fact that they are descendants of the earliest Aryan immigrants who were represented in historical times by the kindred Illyrians, Macedonians and Epirots. According to the opinion of most ethnologists and linguists, the Illyrians formed the core of pre-Hellenic, Tyrrhenopelasgian population, which inhabited the southern portion of the Peninsula and extended its limits to Thrace and Italy. The Illyrians were also Pelasgians, but in a wider sense. Moreover it is believed that of these cognate races, which are described by the ancient Greek writers as "barbarous" and "non-Hellenic," the Illyrians were the progenitors of the Ghegs, or Northern Albanians, and the Epirots the progenitors of the Tosks, or Southern Albanians. This general opinion is borne out the statement of Strabo that the Via Egnatia or ®gitana, which he describes as forming the boundary between the Illyrians and the Epirots, practically corresponds with the course of river Shkumbini, which now seperates the Ghegs from the Tosks. The same geographer states that Epirots were also called Pelasgians. The Pelasgian Zeus, whose memory survives even today in the appellation of God as "Zot" by the modern Albanians, was worshiped at Dodona, where the most famous oracle of ancient times was situated. According to Herodotus the neighborhood of the sanctuary was called Pelasgia.

These findings of the ethnologists are, moreover, strenghthened by the unbroken traditions of the natives, who regard themselves, and with pride as the descendants of the aboriginal settlers of the Balkan Peninsula. They, therefore, they think have the best claims on it. It is also on the strength of these traditions that the Albanian looks upon the other Balkan nationalities as mere intruders who have expropriated him of much that was properly his own. Hence the constsant border warfare which has gone on for centuries between the Albanian and his neighbors.

The Albanian Language
A more concrete evidence of the Illyrian-Pelasgian origin of the Albanians is supplied by the study of the Albanian language. Notwithstanding certain points of resemblance in structure and phonetics, the Albanian language is entirely distinct from the tongues spoken by the neighboring natonalities. This language is particularly interesting as the only surviving representative of the so-called Thraco-Illyrian group of languages, which formed the primitive speech of the inhabitants of the Balkan Peninsula. Its analysis presents, however, great difficulties, as, owing to the absence of early literary monuments, no certainty can be arrived at with regard to its earlier forms and later developments. In the course of time the Albanian language has been impregnated by a large number of foreign words, mainly of ancient Greek or Latin, which are younger than the Albanian Language, but there are certain indications that the primitive Illyrian language exerted a certain degree of influence on the grammatical development of the languages now spoken in the Balkan Peninsula.

There is, however, a very striking feature in this whole matter: that the Albanian language affords the only available means for a rational explanation of the meaning of the names of the ancient Greek gods as well as the rest of the mythological creations, so as exactly to correspond with the characteristics attributed to these deitis by the men of those times. The explanations are so convincing as to confirm the opinion that the ancient Greek mythology had been borrowed, in its entirety, from the Illyrian-Pelasgians. As it was mentioned before, Zeus survives as "Zot" in the Albanian language. The invocation of his name is the common form of oath among the modern Albanians. Athena ( the Latin Minerva), the goddess of wisdom as expressed in speech, would evidently owe its derivation to the Albanian "E Thena," which simply means "speech." Thetis, the goddess of waters and seas, would seem to be but Albanian "Det" which means "sea." It would be interesting to note that the word "Ulysses,"whether in its Latin or Greek form "Odysseus," means "traveler" in the Albanian language, according as the word "udhe," which stands for "route" and "travel," is written with "d" or "l," both forms being in use in Albania. Such examples may be supplied ad libitum. No such facility is, however, afforded by the ancient Greek language, unless the explanation be a forced one and distorted one; but in many instances even such forced and distorted one is not available at all.

In addition, we should not forget the fact that Zeus was a Pelasgian god, par excellence , his original place of worship being Dodona. It is estimated that of the actual stock of the Albanian language, more than one third is of undisputed Ilyrian origin, and the rest are Illyrian-Pelasgian, ancient Greek and Latin, with a small admixture of Slavic, Italian (dating from the Venetian occupation of the seaboard), Turkish and some Celtic words, too.

History > Illyrians

The origins of the Albanian people, as was mentioned before, are not definitely known, but data drawn from history and from linguistic, archaeological, and anthropological studies have led to the conclusion that Albanians are the direct descendants of the ancient Illyrians and that the latter were natives of the lands they inhabited. Similarly, the Albanian language derives from the language of the Illyrians, the transition from Illyrian to Albanian apparently occurring between the 4th and 6th centuries AD.

Illyrian culture is believed to have evolved from the Stone Age and to have manifested itself in the territory of Albania towardthe beginning of the Bronze Age, about 2000 BC. The Illyrians were not a uniform body of people but a conglomeration of many tribes that inhabited the western part of the Balkans, from what is now Slovenia in the northwest to and including the region of Epirus, which extends about halfway down the mainland of modern Greece. In general, Illyrians in the highlands of Albania were more isolated than those in the lowlands, and their culture evolved more slowly--a distinction that persisted throughout Albania's history.

In its beginning, the kingdom of Illyria comprised the actual territories of Dalmatia, Croatia, Bosnia and Herzegovina, Montenegro, with a large part of modern Serbia. Shkodra (Scutari) was its capital, just as it is now, the most important center of Northern Albania.

The earliest known king of Illyria was Hyllus (The Star) who is recorded to have died in the year 1225 B.C. The Kingdom, however, reached its zenith in the fourth century B.C. when Bardhylus (White Star), one of the most prominent of the Illyrian kings, united under scepter the kingdoms of Illyria, Molossia (Epirus*) and a good part of Macedonia. But its decay began under the same ruler as a result of the attacks made on it by Philip of Macedon, father of Alexander the Great.

In the year 232 B.C. the Illyrian throne was occupied by Teuta, the celebrated Queen whom historians have called Catherine the Great of Illyria. The depredations of her thriving navy on the rising commercial development of the Republic forced the Roman Senate to declare war against the Queen. A huge army and navy under the command of of Santumalus and Alvinus attacked Central Albania, and, after two years of protracted warfare, Teuta was induced for peace (227 B.C.)

The last king of Illyria was Gentius, of pathetic memory. In 165 B.C. he was defeated by the Romans and brought to Rome as a captive.

Henceforth, Illyria consisting of the Enkalayes, the Taulantes, the Epirotes, and the Ardianes, became a Roman dependency. She was carved out into three independent republics the capitals of which were respectively Scodar (Shkoder), Epidamnus (Durres) and Dulcigno (todays' Ulqin in Montenegro).

Authors of antiquity relate that the Illyrians were a sociable and hospitable people, renowned for their daring and bravery at war. Illyrian women were fairly equal in status to the men, even to the point of becoming heads of tribal federations. In matters of religion, Illyrians were pagans who believed in an afterlife and buried their dead along with arms and various articles intended for personal use. The land of Illyria was rich in minerals--iron, copper, gold, silver--and Illyrians became skillful in the mining and processing of metals. They were highly skilled boat builders and sailors as well; indeed, their light, swift galleys known as liburnae were of such superior design that the Romans incorporated them into their own fleet as a type of warship called the Liburnian.

The Greeks
From the 8th to the 6th century BC the Greeks founded a string of colonies on Illyrian soil, two of the most prominent of which were Epidamnus (modern Durr's) and Apollonia (near modern Vlor'). The presence of Greek colonies on their soil brought the Illyrians into contact with a more advanced civilization, which helped them to develop their own culture, while they in turn influenced the economic and political life of the colonies. In the 3rd century BC the colonies began to decline and eventually perished. Roughly parallel with the rise of Greek colonies, Illyrian tribes began to evolve politically from relatively small and simple entities into larger and more complex ones. At first they formed temporary alliances with one another for defensive or offensive purposes, then federations and, still later, kingdoms. The most important of these kingdoms, which flourished from the 5th to the 2nd century BC, were those of the Enkalayes, the Taulantes, the Epirotes, and the Ardianes. After warring for the better part of the 4th century BC against the expansionist Macedonian state of Philip II and Alexander the Great, the Illyrians faced a greater threat from the growing power of the Romans. Seeing Illyrian territory as a bridgehead for conquests east of the Adriatic, Rome in 229 BC attacked and defeated the Illyrians, led by Queen Teuta, and by 168 BC established effective control over Illyria.



*) "Epirus" means "mainland" or "continent" in Greek, and was originally applied to the whole coast northward of the Corinthian Gulf in contradistinction to the neighboring islands, Corfu (Corcyra), Leucas, etc. In consequence it does have not any ethnical meaning, as it is sometimes proclaimed. The name of Epirus, as applied to Southern Albania, is misleading inasmuch as its Greek sound gives the idea that one is dealing with a Greek territory. This is due to the unfortunate fact that the principal sources of the history of this section of Albania, are the writings of Greek historians, some of whom tend to hellenize everything. Yet, all the ancient Greek writers, including Theopompus, Thucydides, and the more modern Plutarch, are in full accord in stating that Epirus was exclusively inhabited by non-Hellenic barbarous populations.

Respekte.

[Baptist]

Se Arvanitasit e greqise jane emigrante nga tokat veriore Arbaneshte lere qe nuk ka kurrfare mbeshtetjeje Historike, por as Teorike.
Kjo nuk eshte e mundur as teorikisht!

Bile, sqarimet jan te teperta.