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Tema: "Bibla"

  1. #11
    Ikon-thyes Maska e Qafir Arnaut
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    27-07-2002
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    How the Canon
    Was Formed
    Roy W. Hoover

    The Fourth R
    Volume 5, 1
    January/February 1992

    Interested in becoming a Westar member but would like to know more?
    How did the church decide which books belong to the New Testament? When was the decision made? The answers to these questions constitute one of the most revealing yet least known aspects of early Christian history.

    This question is traditionally referred to as the formation of the canon. The meaning of the Greek term canon is "norm" or "rule," the standard by which things can be measured. In designating the twenty-seven books of the New Testament as a canon, the church was declaring them to be its "rule" for faith and practice, its "normative" collection of writings.


    A Long Time in Coming

    The first list of "canonical" books that names the same twenty-seven writings found in our New Testament appears in the Easter letter of Athanasius, Bishop of Alexandria, Egypt, in 367 C.E. He names them in a different order, to be sure. Even so, the first list that agrees with ours was a long time in coming.

    By the time of Athanasius, or shortly before, the church had reached an informal consensus about most of the writings to be included in the "New" Testament. In fact, agreement on much of the list had been reached more than a century earlier. The process of forming a canon had begun even earlier.

    There is evidence that Paul's letters had been collected by churches in several geographical locations by the end of the first century C.E.

    In a letter sent from the church at Rome to the church at Corinth, the author writes (1 Clement 47:1): "Examine the letter of the blessed Paul the Apostle. What did he write to you at first, when he was just beginning to proclaim the gospel?"

    This is a reference to Paul's first letter to the Corinthians. It indicates that the Christians in Rome owned a copy of it, and that the church in Corinth still had a copy in its possession, half a century after Paul wrote it.

    The author of 2 Peter also knows about a collection of Paul's letters (3:15–16) and assumes that his readers do as well. 2 Peter was written early in the second century C.E.

    Also in the early second century, Ignatius, Bishop of Antioch, wrote letters to seven churches while he was en route to Rome, where he was martyred. In his letters he uses language that clearly shows his familiarity with the letters of Paul. He refers to Paul frequently by name. Such evidence is clear: by the turn of the first century a number of churches had already acquired copies of Paul's letters for their use. The formative stage of a canonical collection of Paul's writings had already taken place.

    At an even earlier date other Christians had made collections of Jesus' sayings and stories about him. The Sayings Gospel Q is just such a compendium of sayings, and the Signs Gospel underlying the Gospel of John is a collection of wondrous deeds ascribed to Jesus. These collections were incorporated into the narrative gospels. The authors of those gospels rearranged the collections of sayings and stories to form continuous stories. Like the letters of Paul, these gospels, along with other writings, were collected by various churches. By mid-second century C.E. a considerable assortment of writings were known to the churches: narrative gospels (Matthew, Mark, Luke, John), at least one sayings gospel (the Gospel of Thomas ), dialogues and revelations attributed to Jesus, various accounts of his birth, several accounts of acts of the apostles, homilies, and more. The church was rapidly becoming a literate church. Within a century of Jesus' death, then, Christians had produced a small but quite diverse library of writings. However, as yet there was no proposal to create an official list, a canon.


    Marcion and the First Canon

    The first significant move toward the creation of a new Christian canon was initiated by Marcion, a ship owner and merchant, the son of a bishop of the church in Asia Minor. Marcion proposed that the church reject the Jewish scriptures and embrace a new canon of its own. That canon was to be composed of only one gospel, Luke, and one apostle, Paul. Marcion's thesis, based on his reading of Paul, was that the Jewish scriptures concerned only the covenant God made with Israel, and was not valid for Christians. The church, for the sake of its unity and for the truth of its gospel, ought to identify its own normative writings and cease its use of Jewish scriptures. Marcion was convinced that references to the God worshiped by the Jews appearing in the writings of Luke and Paul were corruptions of what Luke and Paul wrote originally. As a result, he expunged such references from the versions he included in his proposed New Testament.

    Marcion took Paul as his guide to the correct Christian view of these matters. The Roman suppression of the Bar Kochba rebellion of 132–135 C.E., the last attempt in antiquity of Jews to win their liberty, may have contributed to Marcion's position. If the Jewish scriptures had to do only with the history of the Jewish nation and temple, and if those institutions had come to an end, the church need no longer be concerned with the Jewish scriptures. The disregard of the Hebrew scriptures had been confirmed by events. Marcion's radical move prompted the church to take up the question of canon in a conscious way for the first time. He was clearly the first to propose a specific new canon for the Christian movement.

    Marcion's proposal was shocking to many in his day; his theological rationale was heterodox-heretical. It required response. It forced the church to make a case for the value and status of the Jewish scriptures it had adopted as its own, and it prompted the church to determine which of its own writings ought to be regarded as canonical — as normative and why.


    The First Lists

    The church met Marcion's challenge by drawing up lists of books that were approved to be read in the churches. The earliest of these, the Muratorian Canon, is usually dated to the end of the second century. The most illuminating is the one drawn up by Eusebius, bishop of Caesarea, in his multi-volume history of the church published in 325 C.E.

    Eusebius' list shows that a consensus had already been reached on at least twenty books to be included in the new collection of sacred writings, to be known as the New Testament. He divided books into three categories: "acknowledged," "disputed," and "rejected" writings. That division is typical of earlier lists also. We know, for instance, that Irenaeus, bishop of Lyon in Gaul (France), in works produced about 185 C.E., regarded the twenty books that later appeared in Eusebius' "acknowledged" category as canonical books. In addition, he recognized Revelation and the Shepherd of Hermas, for a total of twenty-two. Early in the next century, Origen of Alexandria endorsed twenty-two writings as canonical. Origen's list was nearly identical with those accepted by Irenaeus and listed as "acknowledged" by Eusebius.

    It can be said, then, that not more than twenty-five or thirty years after Marcion proposed his canon, Irenaeus had proposed an "orthodox" list of twenty writings as canonical. This list was later supplemented but never altered in later debates about the canon. The church adopted Marcion's basic categories, "gospel" and "apostle," but disagreed with his minimalistic definitions of them. Not one gospel but four; not one apostle but "all" the apostles were to be included. The Acts of the Apostles made it into the list under the second heading, along with the letters of Paul and two general epistles (circular letters).


    Four Gospels, One Gospel

    Four gospels appeared to some to compromise the unity of the church's gospel. Marcion had proposed a single gospel, which had the advantage of avoiding any discrepancies or inconsistencies. Around 165 C.E. Tatian in Syria had produced the Diatessaron (literally, "one through four"). Tatian had created a single composite gospel by combining and harmonizing the texts of Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John. The complete text of this innovative work has not survived, but it does reveal another impulse to make unity a fact. But the ancient church rejected such impulses and elected rather to understand the four gospels as four testimonies to one gospel story, one saving message. Irenaeus embellished the point by arguing that just as there are four regions of the world and four directions of the wind, so there are four pillars of the gospel God had given the world. The number four Irenaeus took to be direct evidence of the authenticity of the gospels: the world-wide church could possess neither more nor less than a four-fold gospel.


    Eusebius, Advisor to Emperor Constantine

    When Eusebius produced his "list" in three categories in 325 C.E. he employed rather less fanciful criteria than those advocated by Irenaeus more than a century earlier. Eusebius asks whether writings had been mentioned by earlier generations of church leaders, whether their style comports well with writings known to have been written early in the history of the church, and whether their content is consistent with established orthodoxy. If writings proclaiming to represent the faith do not meet these criteria, he labels them "the forgeries of heretical men."

    The canon was reserved for early works, insofar as their antiquity could be determined. The compilers of the Muratorian Canon had rejected the Shepherd of Hermas, despite its popularity, because it was known to have been composed "recently." Some argued on a more colorful basis that gall should not be mixed with honey, honey presumably representing more orthodox works. But none of the canonical lists mentions inspiration as a criterion for determining which writings were to be included in the canon. The reason, apparently, is that since all Christians were filled with the spirit, a claim of inspiration would not have been useful as a way of distinguishing canonical from extracanonical Christian writings. It is often noted that the one writing in the New Testament claiming to be inspired is the Revelation of John, and it is precisely this book that was most often among the disputed nominees for inclusion in the New Testament. Eusebius' list of 325 C.E., names twenty-one writings as "acknowledged," or accepted as canonical, if we assume that he included the letter to the Hebrews among the letters of Paul, and if we count Revelation among the disputed works. He does not say what the letters of Paul includes; and he lists Revelation twice, once among the acknowledged books and once among those disputed.


    Athanasius' Easter Letter

    The next list that survived from antiquity is the list of Athanasius published in 367 C.E. His list names the same twenty-seven books that constitute our New Testament. In the years intervening between Eusebius and Athanasius, the six books that were disputed or rejected had found their way into the acknowledged category. From Athanasius' day to our own they remain in the canon, although they have been challenged from time to time by leading churchmen and theologians. Martin Luther, for example, thought James, Jude, and Revelation unfit to be included among the canonical books.


    The Bible and Political Intrigue

    What happened between the time of Eusebius and the time of Athanasius to account for the last step in the direction of a consensus? How did the church decide finally on what to include and what to exclude? Unfortunately, our sources are mute on this issue. The Council of Nicea in 325 C.E. did not address the question, and neither Eusebius or Athanasius nor any other writer from the period tells us how this came about.

    One development suggests an intriguingly plausible explanation. In 331 C.E. the Roman Emperor Constantine sent a letter, the text of which has survived, to Bishop Eusebius in Caesarea asking him to arrange for the production of fifty bibles. These books were to be skillfully executed copies of "the divine scriptures" on fine parchment for use in the churches of the new capitol of the Empire, Constantinople . Constantine not only promised to pay all of the expenses incurred in this project, he also provided two carriages to assure the swift shipment of the completed copies for his personal inspection.

    Eusebius was an advisor to and confidant of the Emperor. He is widely regarded as the principal architect of the political philosophy of Constantine's reconstituted empire. He was a trusted ally of the Emperor in advocating and implementing the policies of the newly Christianized state. Eusebius knew that Constantine was concerned about the unity of the church and the unity of the state. Eusebius also knew that these new bibles prepared for the capital city would play an important role in the unity of the church. The inclusiveness of Athanasius' list has the look of political accommodation. It resolves the disagreement about the canonical status of Hebrews and Revelation by including both. It therefore seems plausible to conjecture that the addition of the last six books to the canonical list was not the result of historical or theological argument, but was prompted by the needs of the state. In other words, the New Testament canon was settled for all practical purposes when Constantine gave the order to create fifty bibles. Their publication was papable evidence of the unity of the church and hence the unity of the empire.


    An Open-ended Bible

    The fourth-century canon has been durable, but it was not regarded as final and has never been universal. Among Eastern orthodox churches the canonical diversity in evidence before Constantine continued. The Syrian church's canon, for example, is that of the Peshitta, a Syriac version of the New Testament dating from the fifth century. The Peshitta lacks 2 Peter, 2 and 3 John, Jude, and Revelation. Luther placed Hebrews, James, Jude, and Revelation last in his translation of the New Testament in 1522, because he had doubts about their claims to canonical status. The Gustavus Adolphus Bible (Stockholm, 1618) identifies these four as apocryphal writings. William Tyndale,"the father of the English Bible," placed these same four writings last in his translation of the New Testament in 1526, apparently following the practice of Luther.

    The Roman Catholic Church did not issue an authoritative statement about the contents of the Bible until 8 April 1546, when the Council of Trent, by a vote of twenty-four to fifteen, with sixteen abstentions, declared the writings in Jerome's Latin Vulgate version to be the church's official canon. The Roman Catholic canon differs, however, from the Bible accepted by most Protestant churches: it includes the Old Testament Apocrypha, a series of intertestamental books omitted in Protestant Bibles.

    No single canon, in fact, has ever been accepted as final by the whole church. For the church universalcatholic with a small "c" — the status of the canon today resembles what it was in Eusebius' day: it is both a matter of consensus and a matter of difference.

    Chronology

    * Clement (1st century C.E.): Probably the third bishop of Rome and author of a letter (1 Clement) written to the church at Corinth about 95 C.E.
    * Ignatius (ca. 35–107 C.E.): Bishop of Antioch in Syria and author of letters to several churches: Ephesians, Magnasians, Trallians, Romans, Philadelphians, Smyrmeans. He also wrote a letter to Polycarp, bishop of Smyrna,
    * Marcion (d. ca. 160 C.E.): A native of Sinope in Pontus and a wealthy shipowner. He was excommunicated in 144 CE.
    * Muratorian canon: The oldest extant list of New Testament writings, discovered in the 18th century by L. A. Muratori in an 8th century manuscript. The list generally thought to date from the 2nd century.
    * Tatian (2nd century C.E.): A native of Assyria, Tatian was a Christian apologist and author of the Diatessaron, a history of the life of Christ compiled from the four gospels and used in the Syriac church until the 5th century C.E.):
    * Irenaeus (ca.130–200 C.E.): Bishop of Lyon, Gaul (France).
    * Origen (ca. 185–254 C.E.): Alexandrian biblical critic, exegete, theologian and spiritual writer.
    * Eusebius (ca. 260–340 C.E.): Bishop of Caesarea. His Ecclesiastical History, a multivolume history of the church down to ca. 300, was published ca. 325 C.E.
    * Constantine (ca. 274–337 C.E.): Roman emperor whose policy was to unite the Christian church to the secular State by the closest possible ties. His laws and letters are a chief primary source for the relations of Christianity and the State from 313 onwards.
    * Athanasius (ca. 296–373 C.E.): Bishop of Alexandria, Egypt.
    * Council of Nicea (325 C.E.): The first general council of the Christian church called by Emperor Constantine who feared that disputes within the church would cause disorder in the empire. The Nicene Creed was a result.
    * Council of Trent (1545–1563); In response to the Protestant Reformation, defined Catholic doctrine as distinct from Protestant and implemented reforms to begin a revitalizaton

    Copyright © 1992 Polebridge Press. All rights reserved. May not be reproduced or reprinted without permission in writing from the copyright holder. .

    Interested in becoming a Westar member but would like to know more? Email us and request a free copy of a recent issue of The Fourth R: members@westarinstitute.org Be sure to include your mailing address.
    Adresat e faqeve personale mund ti vendosesh ne profil por jo ne firme. Stafi i Forumit

  2. #12
    Ragnald
    Anėtarėsuar
    18-06-2006
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    london
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    un di vetem nje fakt ....qe isak njutoni ka then:

    ' ne shekullin e katert,djalli u ul ne toke dhe shkrujti 4 ungjillet'

  3. #13
    i/e larguar Maska e forum126
    Anėtarėsuar
    05-10-2003
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    Ser Isak Njutoni mbi Biblen

    Nga Dr. A. Zahur


    Me 1690 Ser Isak Njutoni (1642 - 1727) shkroi nje doreshkrim mbi korruptimin e tekstit te Dhiates se Re persa i perket 1 Gjoni 5:7 dhe Timotheu 3:16. ajo kishte titullin, "A Historical Account of Two Notable Corruptions of scripture." (Nje llogari historike e dy korruptimeve te shquara te shkrimeve).

    Ser Isak Njutoni


    Per te parandaluar kriticizmin nga njerezit qe e rethonin, ai nuk e pa te arsyeshme qe te shprehte mendimet e tij haptazi dhe ne kete menyre botimi i tij ne Angli do te ishte i rrezikshem. Njutoni i dergoi nje kopje te ketij doreshkrimi Xhon Lokes duke i kerkuar atij qe ta perkthente ate ne frengjisht per ta botuar ne France. Dy vjet me vone, Njutoni u informua per nje perpjekje per te publikuar nje perkthim latin te saj ne menyre anonime. Sidoqofte Njutoni nuk dha aprovimin e tij per kete veprim dhe keshilloi Loken qe te merrte hapa per te parandaluar kete publikim.

    Me poshte jane disa pjese nga "A Historical Account of Two Notable Corruptions of scripture." (Nje llogari historike e dy korruptimeve te shquara te shkrimeve)




    Njutoni mbi I Gjoni 5:7

    Njutoni thote se ky varg per here te pare eshte shfaqur ne edicionin e trete te Dhiates se Re te Erasmusit.

    "Kur ata krijuan Trinine; ne edicionin e tij ata futen gjera nga doreshkrimi i tyre, ne qofte se ata kishin nje te tille, si nje almanak qe i ka kaluar koha. Dhe a ka mundesi qe keto metoda jo te pastra te kenaqin nje njeri te arsyeshem?... Eshte me teper nje rrezik sesa avantazh ne besim, qe ta besh ate te mbahet ne nje kallam te thyer.

    "Ne te gjithe ceshtjen universale pasionante dhe te gjate per trinine ne kohen e Xheromit si dhe para dhe pas tij, ky tekst i "te treve ne qiell' as edhe nje here nuk ka qene menduar. Ndersa tani eshte ne gojen e kujtdo dhe llogaritet si ideja kryesore e biznesit dhe me siguri ka qene keshtu gjithashtu edhe me ta, neqoftese ka qene ne librat e tyre.

    "Le ta kuptojne mire kete ata qe jane ne gjendje. Une per vete, nuk e kuptoj fare. Ne qofte se ne themi se nuk jemi te vendosur qe te percaktojme se cfare eshte shkrim i shenjte dhe cfare jo me ane te gjykimit tone personal, une e rrefej ate ne vende ku nuk ka kontradikta, por ne debat une dua qe te mbaj krahun e asaj qe une kuptoj me mire. Eshte temperamenti i nxehte dhe arti superticioz i botes njerezore qe ceshtjet e besimit ti mbushe gjithmone me mistere, dhe per ate arsye te pelqeje me teper ate qe kupton me pak. Keta njerez mund te perdorin apostullin Gjon sic duan, por une kam ate respekt per te si per te besuar se ai shkroi ate qe ndiente dhe atehere e marr kete si nje dicka te tij qe eshte me e mira."[1]




    Njutoni mbi I Timotheu 3:16

    "Ne te gjitha koherat me te nxehta te ceshtjes se gjate kontradiktuese ariane asnjehere nuk erdhen ne skene...ata qe thone "Zoti i shfaqur i misheruar" mendoni kete si tekstin me te dukshem dhe me vend te biznesit."

    "Fjala 'Shenjteri' sjell dominimin mbi qeniet vartese dhe fjala Zot ne te shumten e rasteve do te thote Mbret. Cdo mbret nuk eshte Zot. Dominimi mbi nje qenie shpirterore perben nje Zot. Ne qofte se ai dominim eshte i vertete atehere ajo qenie eshte Zoti i vertete; ne qofte se ky dominim eshte trillim, nje Zot fals; ne qofte se eshte suprem, nje Zot suprem."

    Njutoni po ashtu shkroi nje diskutim mbi dy tekstet e tjera qe Athanasiusi ishte perpjekur te korruptonte. Kjo pune nuk ka arritur deri ne ditet tona. Ai besonte se jo te gjitha librat e e Shkrimeve te Shenjta kishin te njejtin autoritet.

    Isak Njutoni pati lindur ne Lincolnshire me 1642 dhe u edukua ne Kambrixh. Ai u zgjodh ne Shoqerine Mbreterore me 1672, dhe ishte anetar i Klubit te Zoterinjve ne Spalding. Njutoni u be Pergjegjes i Mintit (vendit ku priten parate) Mbreteror me 1696, ku kishte rolin e fiksimit te standartit te floririt. Njutoni u zgjodh President i Shoqerise Mbreterore me 1703. Ser Isak Njutoni kishte pikepamje unitariane dhe ishte ndjekes i Ariusit.

    Reference
    1. A.Wallace, "Anti-Trinitarian Biographies," Vol. III, pp. 428-439, 1850.

    Referenca te tjera
    2. Alton, "Religious Opinions of Milton, Locke, and Newton," 1833.
    3. Green, "Sir Isaac Newton's Views," 1871.
    4. Newton, "Sir Isaac Newton Daniel," 1922.
    5. Mac Lachlan, "The Religious Opinions of Milton, Locke, and Newton," 1941.
    6. Channing, W.E., "The Character and Writing of Milton," 1826.
    7. M. Ata ur-Rahim, "Jesus: A Prophet of Islam," 1983.

    Disa unitariane te tjere ne Krishterim jane: Milton (1608-1674), John Locke (1632-1704), John Biddle (1615-1662), Michael Servetus (1511-1553), Francis David (1510-1579), Lelio Francesko Maria Sozini (1525-1562), Fausto Paolo Sozini (1539-1604), Thomas Emlyn (1663-1741), Theophilus Lindsey (1723-1808), Jozeph Priestly (1733-1804), dhe William Ellery Channing (1780-1842). Nga Unitarianet e pare te famshem jane: Arius (250-336 e.r), Iranaeus (130-200), Tertullian (160-220), Origen (185-254), Diodorus, dhe Lucian (v.312).
    Biografite e tyre permbahen ne referencat 1 dhe 7.

    Me poshte eshte nje raport i shkurter per nje mjek te famshem dhe shkencetar, para dhe pas Njutonit, i cili kishte mendime te fuqishme fetare per trinine.

    Michael Servetus (Majkell Servetus) (1511-1553), lindur ne Spanje, mbaroi shkollen per Mjekesi ne Tuluze me 1534. ai ishte nje nga evropianet e pare qe shkroi per principet e qarkullimit te gjakut. Servetusi shkroi tre vepra te rendesishme: 'Gabimet e Trinitetit' (1531), 'Dy dialogje mbi Trinine' 915310, dhe 'Perteritja e Krishterizmit'. Luteri publikisht e denoi ate me 1539. Servetusi ndoqi idete e mbajtura nga apostujt e pare te cilet i perkisnin shkolles Antiocene te Kristianitetit, dhe ai u kujdes per botimin e Bibles me 1540. Servetusi pati korrespodence me Kalvinin per me teper se njezet vjet. Si rezultat i nje konflikti te ashper, Kalvini e arrestoi ate ne Milan, dhe mbas nje gjyqi te shpejte Servetusi u dogj ne turren e druve. Servetusi konsiderohet nga shume veta si "themeluesi i unitarianizmit modern."

    Theophilus Lindsey (Theofilus Lindsej) njihet si organizatori i kongregacionit te pare unitarian ne Angli. Ne 17 Prill, 1774, Benjamin Franklin(Benxhamin Frenklin) dhe Joseph Priestly (Jozef Pristli) ndoqen sherbimin e pare Unitarian mbajtur nga Lindsey ne Londer. Joseph Priestly njihet si zbuluesi i oksigjenit. Kontributi kryesor i Priestlit per unitarianet ne Angli ishte argumentimi i plote, si nga ana historike dhe filozofike, ne krah te njesise se Zotit. Jozeph Priestley shkroi punen e tij me te rendesishme dhe me influence, 'Histori e Korruptimit te Kristianitetit' ne dy volume. Priestly pohoi humanitetin e Jezusit, por hidhte poshte conceptin e lindjes se tij vetem nga nena me ane te Frymes se Shenjte. Po ashtu ai hodhi poshte doktrinen e Trinitetit. Shtepia e Priestlit u dogj nga nje grup njerezish dhe po ashtu u dogj edhe nje hotel ku grupi i njerezve gabimisht mendonin se Priestly ishte atje. Libri i tij u dogj ne menyre publike ne Hollande, Jozef Priestly lundroi per ne Amerike me Benjamin Franklinin me 1794, ku dhe hapen disa nga kishat Unitariane ne dhe rreth Filadelfias.

  4. #14
    Ikon-thyes Maska e Qafir Arnaut
    Anėtarėsuar
    27-07-2002
    Vendndodhja
    Shum po shndrit aj Diell, e pak po nxeh
    Postime
    1,542
    Citim Postuar mė parė nga Smth_Poetic
    un di vetem nje fakt ....qe isak njutoni ka then:

    ' ne shekullin e katert,djalli u ul ne toke dhe shkrujti 4 ungjillet'
    E me demek ty si mysliman qe je qe duhet te besosh ne Ungjill te bie per shtat kjo thenie e Newton-it?

    Me gjithe ate zallamahi shkrimesh nga kujt i tekej, detyrimisht duhej gjetur nje formule 'kanonike'. Vetem ato histori qe i atribuhoen nje deshmitari pamor te ngjarjeve u bene kanonike.
    Adresat e faqeve personale mund ti vendosesh ne profil por jo ne firme. Stafi i Forumit

  5. #15
    heretic Crusoe Maska e darwin
    Anėtarėsuar
    25-08-2004
    Vendndodhja
    under the microscope
    Postime
    1,918
    mos thua per "histori" dhe "deshmitare pamor" si keto?

    Mateu 9:9 Pastaj Jezusi, duke shkuar tutje, pa nje burre qe rrinte ne dogane, i quajtur Mate, dhe i tha: ''Ndiqme''. Dhe ai u ēua dhe e ndoqi.
    10 Dhe ndodhi qe, kur Jezusi u ul nė tryeze ne shtepi, erdhen shume tagrambledhes dhe mekatare dhe u ulen ne tryeze bashke me te dhe me dishepujt e tij.
    11 Farisenjte, kur e pane kete, u thane dishepujve te tij: ''Pse mesuesi juaj ha buke me tagrambledhesit dhe me mekataret?''
    12 Jezusi, mbasi i degjoi, u tha atyre: ''Nuk jane te shėndoshet ata qe kane nevoje per mjekun, por te semuret.
    13 Tani shkoni dhe mesoni ē'do te thote: "Unė dua mėshirė dhe jo flijime". Sepse une nuk erdha per te thirrur ne pendim te drejtet, por mekataret''.
    por shiko ku na del prape Mate doganieri/IRS (nuk me intereson nese ka qene i korruptuar apo jo) pak me poshte po ne copen e bibles qe presupozohet ta kete shkruar vete ky Mate:

    Mateu 10:1 Pastaj Jezusi i thirri 12 dishepujt e tij rreth vetes dhe u dha autoritet t'i debojne frymerat e ndyra, dhe te sherojne ēdo semundje e ēdo lengate.
    2 Dhe emrat e dymbedhjete apostujve jane keta: i pari Simoni, i quajtur Pjeter dhe Andrea, vellai i tij; Jakobi i Zebedeut dhe Gjoni, vellai i tij;
    3 Filipi dhe Bartolomeu; Thomai dhe Mateu tagrambledhesi, Jakobi i Alfeut dhe Lebeu, i mbiquajtur Tade.
    4 Simon Kananeasi dhe Jude Iskarioti, ai qe me pas e tradhtoi.
    Ky eshte ai "deshmitari pamor" qe flet per veten e tij, sikur te jete i klonuar?
    (pra, sikur jane dy persona.. njeri qe shikon nga jashte ate ngjarje, qe ky tjetri [dmth, po ai i pari] e perjeton)..

    une per vete nuk e mbaj dot te qeshuren kur lexoj per keto budallalleqe llogjike qe duan te shiten si realitet.

    - - - - - - - - - -

    besimtaret islame jane te lutur te mos komentojne ne fryme antagoniste biblen, pasi nuk eshte vendi i duhur per keto lloj tensionesh. Ketu te ateizmi gjeagjeza me e madhe quhet... zoti.

    Nuk do te ishte keq t'a zgjidhnim ate me pare (zotin).
    Prektora

  6. #16
    Ikon-thyes Maska e Qafir Arnaut
    Anėtarėsuar
    27-07-2002
    Vendndodhja
    Shum po shndrit aj Diell, e pak po nxeh
    Postime
    1,542
    Citim Postuar mė parė nga darwin
    Ky eshte ai "deshmitari pamor" qe flet per veten e tij, sikur te jete i klonuar?
    Po. Ky eshte...meqe qenke kaq i mireinformuar me thuaj nje cike kur e pse vdiq.
    Adresat e faqeve personale mund ti vendosesh ne profil por jo ne firme. Stafi i Forumit

  7. #17
    Ikon-thyes Maska e Qafir Arnaut
    Anėtarėsuar
    27-07-2002
    Vendndodhja
    Shum po shndrit aj Diell, e pak po nxeh
    Postime
    1,542
    Citim Postuar mė parė nga darwin
    une per vete nuk e mbaj dot te qeshuren kur lexoj per keto budallalleqe llogjike qe duan te shiten si realitet.
    Realiteti eshte, sic pohoet edhe nga shkollarshipi me liberal Kristian (The Jesus Seminar) nga ku e solla edhe ate artikull, qe disa doreshkrime u refuzuan si autentike pasi nuk kishte prova apo lidhje mjaftueshmerisht te hershme me njerez te aferm te Jeshua ben Miriam.
    Adresat e faqeve personale mund ti vendosesh ne profil por jo ne firme. Stafi i Forumit

  8. #18
    i/e regjistruar
    Anėtarėsuar
    16-11-2005
    Postime
    8,691
    Citim Postuar mė parė nga Qafir Arnaut
    Realiteti eshte, sic pohoet edhe nga shkollarshipi me liberal Kristian (The Jesus Seminar) nga ku e solla edhe ate artikull, qe disa doreshkrime u refuzuan si autentike pasi nuk kishte prova apo lidhje mjaftueshmerisht te hershme me njerez te aferm te Jeshua ben Miriam.
    pirdh o prift ne prill pirdh,
    ne shek e 4 pas krishtit ishte normale qe nuk kishte me prova te mjaftueshme per te provuar autenticitetin e ungjijve.

    Lexoni "The Gnostic Gospels" te Elanie Pagels,
    aty keni info mbi historine e hershme te kishes dhe rrethanat politike te asaj kohe si dhe shume kuriozitete te tjera,
    studimi eshte i bazuar ne historine qe vete kisha ka shkruar keshtu qe nuk keni mundesi te thoni se jane shpifje.

  9. #19
    i/e regjistruar Maska e King_Arthur
    Anėtarėsuar
    27-04-2006
    Vendndodhja
    Detroit U.S.A por me zemer dhe shpirt ne elbasanin tim.
    Postime
    2,411
    bibla dhe kurani jane dy libra qe i takojne secilit besim
    nje pergjigje per pyetjen tende nuk e kam pasi kesaj pyetje i pergjigjen vetem ata te besimit katolik por besoj se jane libra te shenjte qe te dy si kurani dhe bibla

  10. #20
    Larguar.
    Anėtarėsuar
    02-11-2005
    Vendndodhja
    nė Blog
    Postime
    1,121
    Citim Postuar mė parė nga darwin
    Ky eshte ai "deshmitari pamor" qe flet per veten e tij, sikur te jete i klonuar?
    (pra, sikur jane dy persona.. njeri qe shikon nga jashte ate ngjarje, qe ky tjetri [dmth, po ai i pari] e perjeton)..
    Ky njeriu, qe thua ti darwin, nuk ka qene arrgonat qe te thote: 'Erdhi Jezui dhe me tha MUA...' ose 'UNE bera kete dhe UNE kam qene apostull...' etj. Nuk shkruajne autobiografi apostujt.

    Ke lexuar ndonje here Jul Cezarin? Ai gjithmone shkruan ne vet te trete per veten e tij: 'Dhe pastaj Cezari beri kete...'. C'fare do thoshje per Cezarin, se eshte i klonizuar?

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