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Duke shfaqur rezultatin 21 deri 30 prej 116

Tema: Pellazgėt

  1. #21
    Larguar.
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    02-11-2005
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    Nje perkethim pa shije i historise nga tekstet shkollor grek.
    Vertet? Meqe e ke bere shkollen ne Greqi (se perndryshe seke pse flet) sille nje liber shkollor grek ketu te shikojme se cilen pjese kam kopjuar. Ose perndryshe do ta sjell une dhe do shikojme kush thote peralla. Dakord?

    Me duket e tepert te zgjatem e te ve trurin ne pune te analizoj gjera te tilla.
    Qe ta vesh ne perdorim duhet ta kesh fillimisht, apo jo?

    Por ju thate me larte qe historia e pellazgeve jepet ne disa versione. Ju pse zgjodhet dhe na shpjeguat pikerisht versionin grek?!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    Duket se nuk e lexove mire. Nga del se eshte versioni grek? Une shkruajta se kjo teori ka me shume argumente.

    1) Bindje vetjake(nese eshte e tille perse nuk e shkruani, por na e kaloni si histori).
    2) Mos njohje kopetente e versioneve te tjera
    3) Keni femije qe studion ne gjmnaz grek te cilit i ke lexuar gabimisht librin e historise shkollore(propagande e gjalle) duke e shkembyer per ndonje liber shkencor.
    4) Deshire e madhe per te treguar perralla.
    Si eshte e mundur qe gjetet vetem 4 shkaqe?

    Ngela i zhgenjyer nga ato qe lexova. Prisja nje nivel me te larte.
    Jeni i mirepritur te na sillni versionin tuaj qe ta komentojme, ate te nivelit te larte.

  2. #22
    Numeroj peshqit Maska e peshkaqeni33
    Anėtarėsuar
    31-12-2005
    Vendndodhja
    Ce pyesni kot, as vet se di ku eshte.
    Postime
    584
    Se pari ju vleresoj si bashkebisedues, pavarsisht dallimeve tone ne kredo(une besoj) me duhet te pranoj qe jeni nje bashkebisedues i kendeshem. Por jame kunder disa metodave te gjykimit qe keni. Vihet re qe ne pergjigjet qe jepni. Parcelizoni mendimet e nje postimi dhe u jepni pergjigje vec e vec duke ndryshuar kuptimin e kontekstit te pergjitheshem e duke hapur 20-te tema paralele.

    Por edhe te percelizuara, ju u jeni pergjigjur pytjeve te mija me pyetje.
    Sa per punen e trurit, po te ishit i zgjuar do t'a kishit peshuar(sigurisht qe jo me kandar). Nuk jam ekspert ne kete fushe, ashtu si dhe ju(te pakten ashtu duket) sidoqofte nuk ka nevoje te jesh teoricien, qe te kuptosh nje femije qe genjen.
    Proletar te te gjitha vendeve bashkohuni

    Nisuni ju para, sa te therras Saliun

  3. #23
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    Citim Postuar mė parė nga pashkaqeni 33
    Nuk jam ekspert ne kete fushe, ashtu si dhe ju(te pakten ashtu duket) sidoqofte nuk ka nevoje te jesh teoricien, qe te kuptosh nje femije qe genjen.
    Me mire kur flet per eksperte te flasesh per veten tende se mua nuk me njef dhe nuk mund te flasesh. Une te pres te pergjigjesh me fakte dhe ti nuk pergjigjesh por me thua vetem nje mendim tendin. I respektuar mendimi yt por nuk me hyn ne pune...

    qe te kuptosh nje femije qe genjen.
    Faleminderit per ''femije'', e mar si kopliment!

  4. #24
    me 40 hajdutė Maska e alibaba
    Anėtarėsuar
    12-12-2005
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    Ne shpellen e pirateve
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    5,671
    p l s ose f l s, Piluset (dhe Pilusion), Filistiim (Plstim) ose Filistei ose Palestine (dhe Palestina), Pellazge (dhe Pellazjia),
    Pse nuk e ke cekur se Filistejtė nga Kreta kanė emigruar nė Palestinėn e sotme tė cilės i kanė dhėnė emrin?
    Pra nuk kemi tė bėjmė me ardhje tė pellazgėve nga kontinente tjera por me shpėrngulje tė tyre tė herėpas-hershme nga Europa.

  5. #25
    Restaurator Orbis Maska e Baptist
    Anėtarėsuar
    20-11-2004
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    8,690
    Citim Postuar mė parė nga Tannhauser
    Pse, te krijoi paqartesi artikulli im?
    po e ke bere lemsh sa sdi as vet cfare ke shkrojtur. Sipas mendjes sate e gjithe bota ka qene banuar me greker, dhe grekerit gjate gjithe kohes luftonin me grekerit, pastaj vinin greker tjere dhe i mbundnin keta greker, pastaj keta beheshin serish greke dhe luftonin me greke per te bere nje lufte kunder greqise dhe per ti vene themelet shtetit grek i cili ishte grek por nuk ishte komb, pastaj obe olimpiada dhe filluan te vinin disa grek qe u quajten grek po te tjeret i quanin dryshe, por papritmas hetuan se ishin populli i vetem ne bote dhe gjithe ato luftere ma veteveten ishin te merzitshme dhe i shpiken capopuj tjere qe te kishin per kend te shkruajn se vet sdinin lexim.

    Pash Shnanoun cfare po thithen? Bar i forte me duket!
    Aeneas Dardanus
    Lavdi, pasthirrme fosilesh, germadhash e rrenojash vershelluese. -Eja pas meje!...

  6. #26
    i/e regjistruar
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    11-06-2005
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    360
    Citim Postuar mė parė nga alibaba
    Ancient Albania -
    Illyria

    Illyrians, the forefathers of present days Albanians are the descendants of the earliest known race of Europe, "pellazgeve". The word "pellazge" comes from the Albanian word "plajji" or in the modern Albanian "pleqe" which means "old people". This was a name that old Albanian race was called for its old origine in the European continent.
    Later on, the "pellazgi" race was divided into four major races, which were:
    1. Illyrians which were living from Epir up to lands of Bosnia and Croatia's today.
    2. Macedonians which were from Pind mountains up to todays Salonika.
    3. Thrakians people, which lived from Edrene, up to today's Bulgaria.
    4. Frigian's people which were living in the seaside of Anadoll, up to Ankara and Sivas of today's Turkey. Bregdeti i Anadollit deri nė Ankara dhe Sivas.


    http://salam.muslimsonline.com/~albanian/illyria.html
    ajo vjen nga fjala pellg uji se ata jetonin buze ujit (e kam lexuar diku )

  7. #27
    i/e regjistruar
    Anėtarėsuar
    11-06-2005
    Postime
    360
    Po bisedoja me nje grek per historin greke dhe shqiptare
    dhe me thote qe kur ashte ba olimpiku ne greqi shqiptaret nuk kan egzistua si popull,dhe tha qe shqiptaret kan vetem disa shekuj qe kan ardhe ne ballkan, i thash ti din vetem cka thon greket, per mos me u sgjat, kisha nje bibel qe ashte eshkruar anglisht, dhe se ka shkrua shqiptar, kishte nje harte qe tregonte per evropen para 2000 vjetesh dhe ishte iliria pothuajse ne te gjith ballkanin dhe greqia sishte askund kur ja tregova grekut, me tha nuk marr vesh nga historia as une i thash nuk marr vesh por fakti ashte fakt(greket e kan 80% te historise te vjellur) dhe nje dit do te dal ne pah.

  8. #28
    Ikon-thyes Maska e Qafir Arnaut
    Anėtarėsuar
    27-07-2002
    Vendndodhja
    Shum po shndrit aj Diell, e pak po nxeh
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    1,542
    Nje perspektive interesante na jep inkonoklasti nga New Yorku Ardian Vehbiu. "Punojeni aren bij se do ta gjeni"!

    P.S Vehbiu raporton se nje tablet etrusk qenka gjetur ne Shqiperi. Mund te jete zhdukur.

    Citim Postuar mė parė nga Ardian Vehbiu
    OUR OBSESSION WITH ORIGINS


    1. THE NOBLE PELASGIANS
    Somewhere around 1970, in a meeting with representatives of the Youth Organization, at one moment Enver Hoxha suddenly asked about the proceedings of research about Albanian remote origins. One of the present started providing some information about archaeological discoveries concerning Illyrian centers. The Great Leader interrupted him, apparently unsatisfied with this, and said: "What about the Pelasgian Studies?" As nobody was able to refer anything substantial about these non-existent Pelasgian studies, it was Enver Hoxha himself who started to explain the importance of the Pelasgian thesis, as well as to describe some books he had read about the argument, written obviously by French authors.

    Of course, at that time, nobody from the scientific establishment in Albania was studying the Pelasgians. Besides a lot of descriptive, and almost weightless archeological papers, about the Ilyrian material culture, little was being done in historical linguistics either. The only linguist capable of dealing with older phases of Albanian on an international level was Eqrem Cabej, who was practically boycotted by the regime (young linguists used to write dacibaos against him). Nevertheless, the two Conferences of Albanological Studies (1962 and 1968, if I'm not mistaken), as well as the International Colloquium of Illyrian Studies (1972) were a proof that, on the field of proto-Albanian linguistics, there was more than just interesting promises.

    What did the regime do? Give scholarships and send students to distinguished universities of Western Europe, so that proto-Albanian and Illyrian studies could continue? Create a special institute, or at least a department, for the study of Albanian language proto-history, under the deserved leadership of Eqrem Cabej? Of course not.

    They invited in Albania the French scholar Zacharia Mayani, who had manage to explain the mysterious Etruscan inscriptions with the help of Albanian. Then the order was issued to publish, in Albania, the most recent of Mayani's books. And the leader Enver Hoxha started speaking about Pelasgians.

    Now, who has read Mayani's book, and has even the remotest idea about the method of historical linguistic research, will have immediately seen that what Mayani has ingeniously pursued can be anything but science. And who has spent some time with the problem of Balkan proto-history, knows that Pelasgians represent a mythic entity. Actually today in Europe there are no more than 3-4 scholars entitled to deal with the Pelasgian problem.

    Why? Because modern paleolinguistics uses the term "Pelasgians" to name a hypothetical people who inhabited the territory of Greece prior to the arrival of the Hellenic (Indo-European) tribes. It is generally supposed that this extinguished people has left its traces in toponomastics (place names) and in language. Some Old-Greek words, for example, cannot find a satisfactory position in the Greek section of the Indo-European word-root map. Some Old- Greek place names can't be explained with words of the Old Greek, and their sound pattern is dissimilar to the standard Greek sound pattern, etc.

    Scholars usually first identify these elements, and then try to find patterns in them, in order to reach to a tentative description of the Pelasgian language. More than one scholar believed to have found these patterns (the Bulgarian Georgiev is the most authoritative of them). None of these serious scholars has ever found in these non-Greek elements of the Ancient Greek language anything substantially similar to Albanian.

    The essential point here is that it is PATTERNS that count, NOT words. These patterns have to do with structural features of a language, such as: the evolution of determinate Indo-European sounds, the position of the word accent, the hierarchy of stems within composite words, the declination system, and so on.

    Sounds boring? Of course it is, especially because it seems to have nothing to do with our well-known Pelasgians, who gave God names to their Greek neighbors (and presumably the Gods too), and who preceded the Greeks in the Balkans. People don't want to hear about the evolution of proto-Indo-European labiovelars, and neither of the hierarchy of stems. People want clear conclusions about the Pelasgians: where did they go when the Greek chased them away? Where are the lost Pelasgian inscriptions (who has destroyed them)? And on and on.

    The Etruscan revelation about the origins of Albanian happened right when the Pelasgian theory was fading away, at least as far as a hypothetical proto- Albanian connection was concerned. Etruscans are generally viewed as an Oriental people, definitely non-Indo-European, with close relationships to ancient Egypt and other arcane civilizations (therefore much beloved by the French freemasonry). Their language remains a mystery, in spite of the thousands of inscriptions found in Italy and elsewhere (one has probably been found in Albania too, and is conserved in the Archaeological Museum in Shkodra -- at least it was there, before 1990). Some charlatans have not hesitated to see in Etruscans and Pelasgians the very same people (there most important proof consists of an apparently Etruscan inscription found in the Greek island of Lemnos). Through this tour de force the circle is thus closed (Etruscans, Pelasgians, Albanians), and Enver Hoxha's remark about Pelasgians comes out to have been far from superficial.

    The clash between two fundamentally opposite views becomes thus evident: the one that leaves the origins of the Albanians and the Albanian language to science, and the other one that wants these same origins to be established, so to say, by "divine inspiration". In the seventies, science and myth were still disputing the problem, with no clear resolution in view.

    The problem of origins is a constitutive part of any respectable national myth. Ours, who was born in full romantic drift, was rich in pompous assumptions about the Pelasgians, apparently inspired by Von Hahn's theses about the proto-history of Albanians. Arberesh scholars of that time were quite enthusiastic about the Pelasgian myth, and looked at it as a necessary element for the doctrine of the Albanian Renaissance. It continued to thrive for a long time, even after it became clear that the problem of Albanian origins and affiliation was to be resolved between the Illyrian and Thracian hypothesis. The reason for this stubbornness is directly related to the fact that both the Illyrian and the Thracian hypothesis were conceived within a scientific frame of ideas (not necessarily Albanian), while the "origins", as a key element, of the Albanian nationalist doctrine, were more a matter of BELIEF. Traces of this very same attitude among Albanians are abundant today too, though now the place of the mythic Pelasgians has been taken by the equally "mythic" Illyrians.



    WHAT ALL THIS "OLD" IS ABOUT?
    The basic idea behind this flagrant extrapolation is that the Albanian people MUST appear old. Personally I fail to understand why being "ethnically old" should bear any kind of weight in a cultural or a political dispute. I look into Albanian life, as it is today, and try to find something really old. Traditional folk customs might be old, but it is hard to find strictly Albanian features in there. For that, all cultural artifacts, if very old, are hardly Albanian, and if Albanian, are hardly very old. As for our national institutions, which one is old? The Agency of Privatization is certainly recent. Then what? The institution of selling girls to their future husbands? The proverbial Albanian hospitality? (Never heard of a people who wasn't proverbially hospitable). I know from history that Christian religion is certainly two millennia old, but there is little (if not nothing) Albanian in it. Some cities are quite old too, like Shkoder and Durres, but the continuity can be traced only as far as their names are concerned. Most other inhabited centers are relatively recent. People have constantly moved. When people move, their memories change. We all know that, in spite of the great gesta of our national hero Scanderbeg, his name in Albania was practically FORGOTTEN, until the Rilindja came to tell Albanians about him. A whole area in the North sings to Muji and Halili, and Gjergj Elez Alia, and Krajleviq Marko, and Zuku Bajraktar, and Paji Harambash, but makes no mention of Gjergj Kastrioti. To these noble people, Jutbina seems to have been far more important than Kruja. The first Albanian book appeared in 1555. Then, when people move, some of their memories are reinvented. The Arbresh in Italy generally claim that their communities were created from people coming from Northern Albania. Their actual dialect, though, is strictly Tosk. Was Tosk the language spoken in Kruja and Shkodra at that time? Probably not, because the "Baptismal Formula", or the first written document in Albanian, produced by the Bishop of Durres, has clear Gheg features (not to mention "Meshari"). So much for memories. What is then old? The herbal formulas used by local shamans in the mountains to cure the endemic form of jaundice? I remember having read a very interesting paper, which claimed that these formulas had been transmitted to interested locals by homeopathic Austro-Hungarian army doctors during the WW1. Aren't we calling and considering old what isn't but the result of a failed effort to modernization? Probably not. Then the Albanian language? Of course, Albanian language is old. As old as any other language. From the onset of spoken communication, it is virtually possible to trace an uninterrupted line of generations, from Homo Erectus to Partizan Caushi, between mothers who have been pretty SURE of teaching the very same language to their daughters and sons. Otherwise, historical linguists tell us that the word "dora" is older than the word "doreza". Very much true, certainly, but hardly inspiring. And with what right can we claim things, emotively, about the language, which can't have been created by us (on the contrary, it is the Albanian language who has been determinant in creating the Albanian nation -- therefore, the language, if it could, might have used the right to pretend things about its own people). Our names are certainly not old, anyway. My last name, for example, is clearly Arabic-Persian; my first name is a distorted form of an Illyrian ethnonym, exhumed by enthusiastic and atheistic Albanian massoviks during the fifties. What is then old? The Tomorri mountain? Let's leave geography to the school kids. The way we dress? What we eat? Our matrimonial strategies? Our typical card games? None of that. Nothing in culture can be old and alive, at the same time. As the society reproduces itself, all the old turns to new, though not necessarily in a progressive sense. In the same time, the culture we are immersed in, sets us up in such a way, that we are ready to PERCEIVE the old.

    The myth of origins restores, within this frame, the missing antiquity.


    WHO NEEDS A MYTHOLOGY TO BE ALBANIAN?
    There is no doubt, though, that Illyrians DID exist, as an Indo-European people in the Balkans. They are studied by scholars, who might not be very enthusiastic about Albanian nationalist issues, without being, for that, anti- Albanian. These scholars have reached the following conclusion:

    To the extent that the Illyrian language remains an unknown entity, it is not possible to establish any form of continuity between this people and the Albanians, though the Albanians probably are the descendants of Illyrians, because IF they had come to their present territory after the Illyrians were romanized, the historians would have recorded such an event.

    Of course, the Albanian national mythologues can't accept such a vague and "hypochrite" scientific prudence. Once more, what the myth needs, is immediate proof of absolute certainty. If science has not been able to provide this kind of truth, then the science isn't worth anything: let's call the Zacharias, and resolve the problem NOT within the scientific paradigm, but BEYOND it. Where immanence fails, transcendence will win.

    The Albanian ideologues and doctrinaires during the Communist regime did not promptly accept even the scientifically proven fact of the Albanian Indo- European affiliation. After 1960, they would immediately run after any kind of thesis that proved the UNIQUENESS of Albanians, whereas the Indo-Europeism of our origins would simply certify that the Albanian proto-history placed us within a great family of peoples, with whom we would have to share, in last analysis, the most fundamental moments of our history. The merit of the Pelasgian (and Etruscan) theories was that they focused on the arcane, and consequently isolated Albanian origins from European history.

    Professional ideologues and manipulators that they were, their only worry was how to put science and culture in the service of politics. After all, science will always be so vague, and so tormented by doubts about truth and knowledge, that the political ideologues will ALWAYS be able to find something suitable to their purpose of the moment. In the 50-ies, for example, it was highly important that the evident cultural difference between Albanians and the great family of Slav peoples dominating the Communist Europe were somehow smoothed away. About this issue, one of the most distinguished Albanian historians had to say, in 1955, in front of an audience of the Soviet Academy of Sciences in Moscow, more or less the following:

    "The bourgeois science has always tried to deny the historic, ethnic and language links between Albanians and the Slavs. We won't fall into this ****. There's no reason to deny that there is Slavic blood running in our veins, and we are proud of it."

    After 1960 all this Slavic blood dried out, obviously.

    In my opinion, the research regarding the proto-history of Albanian (language and people) is very exciting, and will certainly give further interesting results. Nevertheless, to the extent that these results will be used by politicians, as a support of their activities (which might well be the noblest possible), they can't retain their scientificity. Greek and Serb nationalisms are full of such bombastic stuff, about origins, race and noble languages. With respect to our neighbors, Albanian nationalism has been far too timid, but this doesn't mean that current Albanian culture should now get seriously involved into this comedy of ancestor graves, old God names, and forgotten Sultan-killing heroes.

    A preoccupation with Albanian issues, and even love for Albanian lands and Albanian countrypeople have little to do with the mythic and pseudo-historical instruments used by nationalist ideologues, in order to organize their hysterical herd. We all see what they were able to do with the Serbian people, and push them into medieval hysteria, war and genocide. As far as Albania is concerned, yesterday the myth of noble ("old") origins was used to support the delirium of Communist Albania's uniqueness and glory. Today it might be used to consolate (and make up) for the Albanian misery. Fairy tales might be important for children, and immature cultures. Albania, Kosova, and all other Albanian lands today deserve better.
    Ndryshuar pėr herė tė fundit nga Qafir Arnaut : 15-09-2006 mė 01:12
    Adresat e faqeve personale mund ti vendosesh ne profil por jo ne firme. Stafi i Forumit

  9. #29
    Larguar.
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    Somewhere around 1970, in a meeting with representatives of the Youth Organization, at one moment Enver Hoxha suddenly asked about the proceedings of research about Albanian remote origins. One of the present started providing some information about archaeological discoveries concerning Illyrian centers. The Great Leader interrupted him, apparently unsatisfied with this, and said: "What about the Pelasgian Studies?" As nobody was able to refer anything substantial about these non-existent Pelasgian studies, it was Enver Hoxha himself who started to explain the importance of the Pelasgian thesis, as well as to describe some books he had read about the argument, written obviously by French authors.
    Hoxha e kishte te ngulitur ne mendje teorine pellazgjike. Madje edhe ne takimet me Stalinin, kur ky i fundit e pyeti per origjinen e shqiptareve iu pergjigj se shqiptaret jane me origjine ilire, por se ceshtja e prejardhjes pellazgjike nuk ishte qartesuar ende. Deri tek 'Stalini i Math' arriti teoria e pellazgeve!

    Kurse kur u takua me pergjegjesit qe do hartonin 'Historine e Shqiperise' (me duket se ishte viti 1955-56) dhe do tu jepte direktivat u theksoi qe te mos e lene menjane teorine pellazgjike por ta kene parasysh.

  10. #30
    Restaurator Orbis Maska e Baptist
    Anėtarėsuar
    20-11-2004
    Postime
    8,690
    Po sigurisht qe Hoxha nuk ishte i palexuar dhe e dinte se popujt nuk binin nga qielli apo nga ajo vrima e Ozonit. Ai ishte i vetdijshem se ky popull, nese ka nderruar emer se paku dy here gjate mesjetes se vone, ka mundur ta beje kete edhe me heret! Prandaj nuk e perjashtonte teorine pellasge.
    Aeneas Dardanus
    Lavdi, pasthirrme fosilesh, germadhash e rrenojash vershelluese. -Eja pas meje!...

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Regullat e Postimit

  • Ju nuk mund tė hapni tema tė reja.
  • Ju nuk mund tė postoni nė tema.
  • Ju nuk mund tė bashkėngjitni skedarė.
  • Ju nuk mund tė ndryshoni postimet tuaja.
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