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Rezultati i Sondazhit: C'mendim keni per nderhyrjen ne Irak?

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  1. #21
    i/e regjistruar
    Anëtarësuar
    10-09-2004
    Postime
    2,389
    Citim Postuar më parë nga Qazim RUDI
    nga ana tjeter harrohet se armet biokimike erdhen nga Amerika

    Xeni kjo me duket pak e cuditshme por nese ke ndonje material mund t'a shtosh ne shkrimet tuaja.
    Po sjell ketu nje artikull nga Washington Post

    I lutem moderatoreve qe te mos e fshijne deri sa ta lexoje Qazimi...

    Kam theksuar ne italics disa gjera por i gjithe shkrimi tregon shume. I njejti Rumsfeld eshte ne krye te nderhyrjes humanitare sot i nderuar Qazim.
    .................................................. .............................
    U.S. Had Key Role in Iraq Buildup
    Trade in Chemical Arms Allowed Despite Their Use on Iranians, Kurds

    By Michael Dobbs

    Washington Post Staff Writer
    Monday, December 30, 2002; Page A01

    High on the Bush administration's list of justifications for war against Iraq are President Saddam Hussein's use of chemical weapons, nuclear and biological programs, and his contacts with international terrorists. What U.S. officials rarely acknowledge is that these offenses date back to a period when Hussein was seen in Washington as a valued ally.

    Among the people instrumental in tilting U.S. policy toward Baghdad during the 1980-88 Iran-Iraq war was Donald H. Rumsfeld, now defense secretary, whose December 1983 meeting with Hussein as a special presidential envoy paved the way for normalization of U.S.-Iraqi relations. Declassified documents show that Rumsfeld traveled to Baghdad at a time when Iraq was using chemical weapons on an "almost daily" basis in defiance of international conventions.

    The story of U.S. involvement with Saddam Hussein in the years before his 1990 attack on Kuwait -- which included large-scale intelligence sharing, supply of cluster bombs through a Chilean front company, and facilitating Iraq's acquisition of chemical and biological precursors -- is a topical example of the underside of U.S. foreign policy. It is a world in which deals can be struck with dictators, human rights violations sometimes overlooked, and accommodations made with arms proliferators, all on the principle that the "enemy of my enemy is my friend."

    Throughout the 1980s, Hussein's Iraq was the sworn enemy of Iran, then still in the throes of an Islamic revolution. U.S. officials saw Baghdad as a bulwark against militant Shiite extremism and the fall of pro-American states such as Kuwait, Saudi Arabia, and even Jordan -- a Middle East version of the "domino theory" in Southeast Asia. That was enough to turn Hussein into a strategic partner and for U.S. diplomats in Baghdad to routinely refer to Iraqi forces as "the good guys," in contrast to the Iranians, who were depicted as "the bad guys." [Amerika hiqet sot si shpetimtare e shiiteve por dikur ka mbeshtetur Sadamin thjesht pse ishte kundershtar i shiiteve!]

    A review of thousands of declassified government documents and interviews with former policymakers shows that U.S. intelligence and logistical support played a crucial role in shoring up Iraqi defenses against the "human wave" attacks by suicidal Iranian troops. The administrations of Ronald Reagan and George H.W. Bush authorized the sale to Iraq of numerous items that had both military and civilian applications, including poisonous chemicals and deadly biological viruses, such as anthrax and bubonic plague.

    Opinions differ among Middle East experts and former government officials about the pre-Iraqi tilt, and whether Washington could have done more to stop the flow to Baghdad of technology for building weapons of mass destruction.

    "It was a horrible mistake then, but we have got it right now," says Kenneth M. Pollack, a former CIA military analyst and author of "The Threatening Storm," which makes the case for war with Iraq. "My fellow [CIA] analysts and I were warning at the time that Hussein was a very nasty character. We were constantly fighting the State Department."

    "Fundamentally, the policy was justified," argues David Newton, a former U.S. ambassador to Baghdad, who runs an anti-Hussein radio station in Prague. "We were concerned that Iraq should not lose the war with Iran, because that would have threatened Saudi Arabia and the Gulf. Our long-term hope was that Hussein's government would become less repressive and more responsible."

    What makes present-day Hussein different from the Hussein of the 1980s, say Middle East experts, is the mellowing of the Iranian revolution and the August 1990 invasion of Kuwait that transformed the Iraqi dictator, almost overnight, from awkward ally into mortal enemy. In addition, the United States itself has changed. As a result of the Sept. 11, 2001, terrorist attacks on New York and Washington, U.S. policymakers take a much more alarmist view of the threat posed by the proliferation of weapons of mass destruction.

    U.S. Shifts in Iran-Iraq War

    When the Iran-Iraq war began in September 1980, with an Iraqi attack across the Shatt al Arab waterway that leads to the Persian Gulf, the United States was a bystander. The United States did not have diplomatic relations with either Baghdad or Tehran. U.S. officials had almost as little sympathy for Hussein's dictatorial brand of Arab nationalism as for the Islamic fundamentalism espoused by Iran's Ayatollah Ruhollah Khomeini. As long as the two countries fought their way to a stalemate, nobody in Washington was disposed to intervene.

    By the summer of 1982, however, the strategic picture had changed dramatically. After its initial gains, Iraq was on the defensive, and Iranian troops had advanced to within a few miles of Basra, Iraq's second largest city. U.S. intelligence information suggested the Iranians might achieve a breakthrough on the Basra front, destabilizing Kuwait, the Gulf states, and even Saudi Arabia, thereby threatening U.S. oil supplies. [Pra, per sa kohe qe vriteshin me njeri-tjetrin se vinte ujin ne zjarr Amerika, por sapo i prekeshin interesat menjehere bente nderhyrje "humanitare"]

    "You have to understand the geostrategic context, which was very different from where we are now," said Howard Teicher, a former National Security Council official, who worked on Iraqi policy during the Reagan administration. "Realpolitik dictated that we act to prevent the situation from getting worse."

    To prevent an Iraqi collapse, the Reagan administration supplied battlefield intelligence on Iranian troop buildups to the Iraqis, sometimes through third parties such as Saudi Arabia. The U.S. tilt toward Iraq was enshrined in National Security Decision Directive 114 of Nov. 26, 1983, one of the few important Reagan era foreign policy decisions that still remains classified. According to former U.S. officials, the directive stated that the United States would do "whatever was necessary and legal" to prevent Iraq from losing the war with Iran.

    The presidential directive was issued amid a flurry of reports that Iraqi forces were using chemical weapons in their attempts to hold back the Iranians. In principle, Washington was strongly opposed to chemical warfare, a practice outlawed by the 1925 Geneva Protocol. In practice, U.S. condemnation of Iraqi use of chemical weapons ranked relatively low on the scale of administration priorities, particularly compared with the all-important goal of preventing an Iranian victory. [Teorikisht dhe me deklarata denohej perdorimi i armeve, por ne te vertete, ne praktike nuk ishin keshtu gjerat.]

    Thus, on Nov. 1, 1983, a senior State Department official, Jonathan T. Howe, told Secretary of State George P. Shultz that intelligence reports showed that Iraqi troops were resorting to "almost daily use of CW" against the Iranians. But the Reagan administration had already committed itself to a large-scale diplomatic and political overture to Baghdad, culminating in several visits by the president's recently appointed special envoy to the Middle East, Donald H. Rumsfeld.

    Secret talking points prepared for the first Rumsfeld visit to Baghdad enshrined some of the language from NSDD 114, including the statement that the United States would regard "any major reversal of Iraq's fortunes as a strategic defeat for the West." When Rumsfeld finally met with Hussein on Dec. 20, he told the Iraqi leader that Washington was ready for a resumption of full diplomatic relations, according to a State Department report of the conversation. Iraqi leaders later described themselves as "extremely pleased" with the Rumsfeld visit, which had "elevated U.S.-Iraqi relations to a new level."

    In a September interview with CNN, Rumsfeld said he "cautioned" Hussein about the use of chemical weapons, a claim at odds with declassified State Department notes of his 90-minute meeting with the Iraqi leader. A Pentagon spokesman, Brian Whitman, now says that Rumsfeld raised the issue not with Hussein, but with Iraqi foreign minister Tariq Aziz. The State Department notes show that he mentioned it largely in passing as one of several matters that "inhibited" U.S. efforts to assist Iraq.

    Rumsfeld has also said he had "nothing to do" with helping Iraq in its war against Iran. Although former U.S. officials agree that Rumsfeld was not one of the architects of the Reagan administration's tilt toward Iraq -- he was a private citizen when he was appointed Middle East envoy -- the documents show that his visits to Baghdad led to closer U.S.-Iraqi cooperation on a wide variety of fronts. Washington was willing to resume diplomatic relations immediately, but Hussein insisted on delaying such a step until the following year.

    As part of its opening to Baghdad, the Reagan administration removed Iraq from the State Department terrorism list in February 1982, despite heated objections from Congress. Without such a move, Teicher says, it would have been "impossible to take even the modest steps we were contemplating" to channel assistance to Baghdad. Iraq -- along with Syria, Libya and South Yemen -- was one of four original countries on the list, which was first drawn up in 1979.

    Some former U.S. officials say that removing Iraq from the terrorism list provided an incentive to Hussein to expel the Palestinian guerrilla leader Abu Nidal from Baghdad in 1983. On the other hand, Iraq continued to play host to alleged terrorists throughout the '80s. The most notable was Abu Abbas, leader of the Palestine Liberation Front, who found refuge in Baghdad after being expelled from Tunis for masterminding the 1985 hijacking of the cruise ship Achille Lauro, which resulted in the killing of an elderly American tourist.

    Iraq Lobbies for Arms

    While Rumsfeld was talking to Hussein and Aziz in Baghdad, Iraqi diplomats and weapons merchants were fanning out across Western capitals for a diplomatic charm offensive-cum-arms buying spree. In Washington, the key figure was the Iraqi chargé d'affaires, Nizar Hamdoon, a fluent English speaker who impressed Reagan administration officials as one of the most skillful lobbyists in town.

    "He arrived with a blue shirt and a white tie, straight out of the mafia," recalled Geoffrey Kemp, a Middle East specialist in the Reagan White House. "Within six months, he was hosting suave dinner parties at his residence, which he parlayed into a formidable lobbying effort. He was particularly effective with the American Jewish community."

    One of Hamdoon's favorite props, says Kemp, was a green Islamic scarf allegedly found on the body of an Iranian soldier. The scarf was decorated with a map of the Middle East showing a series of arrows pointing toward Jerusalem. Hamdoon used to "parade the scarf" to conferences and congressional hearings as proof that an Iranian victory over Iraq would result in "Israel becoming a victim along with the Arabs."

    According to a sworn court affidavit prepared by Teicher in 1995, the United States "actively supported the Iraqi war effort by supplying the Iraqis with billions of dollars of credits, by providing military intelligence and advice to the Iraqis, and by closely monitoring third country arms sales to Iraq to make sure Iraq had the military weaponry required." Teicher said in the affidavit that former CIA director William Casey used a Chilean company, Cardoen, to supply Iraq with cluster bombs that could be used to disrupt the Iranian human wave attacks. Teicher refuses to discuss the affidavit.

    At the same time the Reagan administration was facilitating the supply of weapons and military components to Baghdad, it was attempting to cut off supplies to Iran under "Operation Staunch." Those efforts were largely successful, despite the glaring anomaly of the 1986 Iran-contra scandal when the White House publicly admitted trading arms for hostages, in violation of the policy that the United States was trying to impose on the rest of the world.

    Although U.S. arms manufacturers were not as deeply involved as German or British companies in selling weaponry to Iraq, the Reagan administration effectively turned a blind eye to the export of "dual use" items such as chemical precursors and steel tubes that can have military and civilian applications. According to several former officials, the State and Commerce departments promoted trade in such items as a way to boost U.S. exports and acquire political leverage over Hussein.

    When United Nations weapons inspectors were allowed into Iraq after the 1991 Gulf War, they compiled long lists of chemicals, missile components, and computers from American suppliers, including such household names as Union Carbide and Honeywell, which were being used for military purposes.

    A 1994 investigation by the Senate Banking Committee turned up dozens of biological agents shipped to Iraq during the mid-'80s under license from the Commerce Department, including various strains of anthrax, subsequently identified by the Pentagon as a key component of the Iraqi biological warfare program. The Commerce Department also approved the export of insecticides to Iraq, despite widespread suspicions that they were being used for chemical warfare.

    The fact that Iraq was using chemical weapons was hardly a secret. In February 1984, an Iraqi military spokesman effectively acknowledged their use by issuing a chilling warning to Iran. "The invaders should know that for every harmful insect, there is an insecticide capable of annihilating it . . . and Iraq possesses this annihilation insecticide."

    Chemicals Kill Kurds

    In late 1987, the Iraqi air force began using chemical agents against Kurdish resistance forces in northern Iraq that had formed a loose alliance with Iran, according to State Department reports. The attacks, which were part of a "scorched earth" strategy to eliminate rebel-controlled villages, provoked outrage on Capitol Hill and renewed demands for sanctions against Iraq. The State Department and White House were also outraged -- but not to the point of doing anything that might seriously damage relations with Baghdad. [Shkurt muhabeti, pse vriteshin Kurdet nuk i eshte bere vone Amerikes. Ajo me shume rendesi i ka dhene koalicionit te athershem me Sadamin pavaresishtse sot mburret me ndihmen qe i dha kurdeve duke i shpetuar nga Sadami!]

    "The U.S.-Iraqi relationship is . . . important to our long-term political and economic objectives," Assistant Secretary of State Richard W. Murphy wrote in a September 1988 memorandum that addressed the chemical weapons question. "We believe that economic sanctions will be useless or counterproductive to influence the Iraqis."

    Bush administration spokesmen have cited Hussein's use of chemical weapons "against his own people" -- and particularly the March 1988 attack on the Kurdish village of Halabjah -- to bolster their argument that his regime presents a "grave and gathering danger" to the United States.

    The Iraqis continued to use chemical weapons against the Iranians until the end of the Iran-Iraq war. A U.S. air force intelligence officer, Rick Francona, reported finding widespread use of Iraqi nerve gas when he toured the Al Faw peninsula in southern Iraq in the summer of 1988, after its recapture by the Iraqi army. The battlefield was littered with atropine injectors used by panicky Iranian troops as an antidote against Iraqi nerve gas attacks.

    Far from declining, the supply of U.S. military intelligence to Iraq actually expanded in 1988, according to a 1999 book by Francona, "Ally to Adversary: an Eyewitness Account of Iraq's Fall from Grace." Informed sources said much of the battlefield intelligence was channeled to the Iraqis by the CIA office in Baghdad. [No Comment!]

    Although U.S. export controls to Iraq were tightened up in the late 1980s, there were still many loopholes. In December 1988, Dow Chemical sold $1.5 million of pesticides to Iraq, despite U.S. government concerns that they could be used as chemical warfare agents. An Export-Import Bank official reported in a memorandum that he could find "no reason" to stop the sale, despite evidence that the pesticides were "highly toxic" to humans and would cause death "from asphyxiation."

    The U.S. policy of cultivating Hussein as a moderate and reasonable Arab leader continued right up until he invaded Kuwait in August 1990, documents show. When the then-U.S. ambassador to Baghdad, April Glaspie, met with Hussein on July 25, 1990, a week before the Iraqi attack on Kuwait, she assured him that Bush "wanted better and deeper relations," according to an Iraqi transcript of the conversation. "President Bush is an intelligent man," the ambassador told Hussein, referring to the father of the current president. "He is not going to declare an economic war against Iraq."

    "Everybody was wrong in their assessment of Saddam," said Joe Wilson, Glaspie's former deputy at the U.S. embassy in Baghdad, and the last U.S. official to meet with Hussein. "Everybody in the Arab world told us that the best way to deal with Saddam was to develop a set of economic and commercial relationships that would have the effect of moderating his behavior. History will demonstrate that this was a miscalculation."


    http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp...&notFound=true
    .................................................. ..................................................

  2. #22
    i/e regjistruar Maska e Irfan
    Anëtarësuar
    08-07-2002
    Vendndodhja
    Aty ku Allahu me krijoji
    Postime
    464
    Nderhyrja ne İrak,per disa ishte humane,per disa nuk ishte humane.duhemi ta dime se nderhyrja e SHBA ne Irak ıshte pa vullnetin e popullit,dhe nderhyrja e SHAB ne Irak, shume nuk eshte humane.
    Nderhyrja e Shba. ishte e mireseardhur nga ana e Kurdeve dhe te nje kategoris tjeter te banoreve ne Irak.Shtresa e banoreve te İrakut qe ishin te shtypur nga Sadami.
    Nderhyrja e Shba. nuk ishte e mireseardhur nga ana e regjimit ne pushtet dhe atyre qe po luftojn te marri pushtetin me dhune.
    Sadami,ishte nje person i CİJES,ai shume plane i arriti t'ja realizoj SHBA ne mesin e vendeve muslimane-arabe.Duke ber perqarje ne mesin e muslimaneve-arabe.Duke filluar te bej lufte me Iranin,Kuvajtin qe ishte i nxitür nga SHBA,thjeshte Lufte Biznisi,Ne mes Sadamit dhe SHBA.Kjo periudh zgjati aqe sa deshti vet SHBA.Dhe perfundoji me nderhyrje ushtarake ne Irak.Ky ishte qellimi i SHBA.Sadami erdhi ne pushtet duke bere grushtshtet me ndihmen e SHBA, dhe u rrezuar me ndihmen e SHBA.
    Sa per te ditur me mire se SHBA ka okupuar İrakun me qellim Humane,le te tregojn kufomat qe çdo dite nuk po i del fundi......
    Ndryshuar për herë të fundit nga Irfan : 26-05-2005 më 10:26
    Shqiperi eshte aty ku flitet shqip.....aty ku u nda toka dhe qielli

  3. #23
    In God I trust Maska e fjollat
    Anëtarësuar
    15-02-2005
    Vendndodhja
    Para shfaqjes së hitlerit
    Postime
    1,085
    ]"e perkrah sot nderhyrjen ushtarake amerikane ne Irak,pasi keshtu populli i ketij vendi clirohet perfundimisht nga diktatura e Sadam Huseinit...".Ky ishte mesazhi i shkrimtarit te madh latinoamerikan Mario Vargas Ljosa
    Ky zotëriu Ljosa le t'ua thot këto fjalë të gjithë atyre irakienëve që kanë vdekur, atyre që mbetën t'i qajnë ata që vdiqën dhe të gjithëve që ballafaqohen dhe do të ballafaqohen me këto tmerre, vetëm për shkak se bushit po i bie pika për lirinë dhe demokracinë e popullit irakien. Turp! Të bëhen gjitha këto krime nën emrin e demokracisë. Shyqyr Zotit që të gjithë intelektualët nuk mendojnë në mënyrë të njejtë dhe nuk e ndajnë këtë mendim të këtij zotëri nobelistit.

    Duhet bërë dallim midis gjendjes në Kosovë para ndërhyrjes së NATO-s dhe gjendjes së Irakut para ndërhyrjes së Amerikës dhe mënyrës si u realizuan ato ndërhyrje. Dallimi midis gjendjes së popullatës shqiptare nën gjenocidin serb, në çastet kur u muar vendimi për ndërhyrje dhe gjendjes së popullatës irakiene nën diktaturën e sadamit në çastet kur u soll vendimi për ndërhyrje, është shumë i madh. E dini edhe vetë, mos të humbi kohë kot. Ndërhyrja në Kosovë ishte legjitime, kurse në Irak jo. Ajo që thot Bushi, është vetëm përrallë e kotë! Arsyet janë shumë të qarta, megjithëse fshehen pas “qëllimeve aq humane”, për të justifikuar interesat dhe veprimet e tija. Bashkësia ndërkombtare nuk nënkupton vetëm kryetarin amerikan dhe kryeminstrin britanik. Veprimet e tyre qenë të kundërshtuara nga bashkësia ndërkombëtare.

    Ajo qe nuk eshte e kenaqur eshte popullsia suni sepse ishin ata qe shtypen mizorisht me ne krye Sadamin irakienet e tjere,ishin ata bashkefshatare kriminele te Tikritit qe vrisnin ke donin e benin cfare te donin.Ndersa sot te rrezuar nga froni ata gjejne mbeshtetje tek "partizanet" e ardhur nga shtetet e tjera arabe per te vrare vellau vellane.Ata sot i kryejne te gjitha krimet qe ndodhin ne Irak sepse nuk pajtohen me faktin e te qenurit pakice.
    Nëse analizohet ky mendim, del se përkrahësit e sadamit paskan qenë në numër tejet të madh, pasi edhe pas dy vite e ca të shpalljes së fitores nga ana e koalicionit, akoma nuk i shfarrosën dhe çdo ditë po rritet numri i tyre!!! Vërtet se popullata kishte vuajtur nga regjimi diktatorial dhe vuajtjet e tyre në emër të këtij regjimi s'kanë të ndalur, megjithëse ky regjim u shkatërrua.
    Ndryshuar për herë të fundit nga fjollat : 26-05-2005 më 11:20

  4. #24
    i/e regjistruar
    Anëtarësuar
    10-09-2004
    Postime
    2,389
    Citim Postuar më parë nga Qazim RUDI
    E njejta gje ndodhi dhe me Sadamin i cili gjeti mbeshteti tek popullsia suni e qe eshte pergjegjese per ato qe ndodhen gjate regjimit te tij.Nese neser do te mbahen gjykimet per Sadamin e kliken e tij duhet te jete e qarte se ne te vertete eshte gjykuar dhe qendrimi i asaj pjese te madhe te popullsise (normalisht jo te gjithe) suni qe e mbeshteti fuqimisht ate kunder kurdeve dhe shiiteve.

    Dua te te replikoj ne lidhje me kete pjese ne veçanti.

    Te kujtoj perberjen e popullsise ne Irak:

    Kurd: 15 deri ne 20 %

    ndersa sipas shii/suni:
    Shi'a 60%-65%, Sunni 32%-37%


    Pra, nga keto llogari i bie qe sunite te jene pakice dhe eshte e pamundur qe mbeshtetja e tyre te kete qene vendimtare ne mbajtjen e pushtetit nga Sadami. Arsyeja pse sunite dolen ne krye eshte mbeshtetja qe u dha Amerika sepse kishte frike nga shiat. Kishte frike nga shiat sepse, ashtu siç ndodhi ne Iran, ata mund t'i dilnin kunder dhe shiat jane me te vullnetshem per vendosjen e nje rregjimi Islam, gje kjo qe nuk i pelqen aspak Amerikes. Ardhja ne pushtet e shiave mund te çonte vendin ne krijimin e nje koalicioni Iran-Irak qe mund te prishte ekuilibrat qe i interesonin Amerikes... (Ne artikullin qe kam sjelle me lart ne Anglisht ka plot fakte se realiteti ehste keshtu!)
    Pra, kur te flasim eshte mire qe te mos arrijme ne konkluzione thjehst duke parese ç'ndodh ne siperfaqe por edhe te mundohemi te gjejme arsyet qe fshihen pas realitetit.
    Ndryshuar për herë të fundit nga [xeni] : 26-05-2005 më 11:55

  5. #25
    -==|ylli_forumit|==- Maska e ElMajico
    Anëtarësuar
    11-07-2004
    Vendndodhja
    [Milano].Me Zemer Atje...Tek e Vjetra e Bukura [Shqiperi!!!]
    Postime
    1,042
    Thjesht dhe shqip mendoj qe ne asnje menyre nuk mund te quhet lufte humanitare ajo ne Irak.Amerika shfrytezoi thjesht supremacine e saj mbi vendet e tjera.

    Keto qe hiqen si te mire dhe jane kaq fallco te neverisin.

  6. #26
    i/e regjistruar Maska e Irfan
    Anëtarësuar
    08-07-2002
    Vendndodhja
    Aty ku Allahu me krijoji
    Postime
    464
    Citim Postuar më parë nga [xeni]
    [FONT=Times New Roman][SIZE=3]Dua te te replikoj ne lidhje me kete pjese ne veçanti.

    Te kujtoj perberjen e popullsise ne Irak:

    Kurd: 15 deri ne 20 %

    ndersa sipas shii/suni:
    Shi'a 60%-65%, Sunni 32%-37%
    Pershendetje ''xeni''

    Perqindja e Kurdeve eshte e perafert e sakt.

    Sa e di une,perqindja me madhe eshte e Sunni se sa e Shi'a,e kam fjalen ne Irak.Per kete info. po e shkruaj duke u mbeshtetur ne disa info. qe i kam marre nga disa irakijan(Sunni) qe studijojn ne Turki.Ndersa ne Iran,perqindja eshte me e madhe e Shi'a se sa e sunni.
    Lufta ne mes Sunni dhe shi'i nuk eshte lufte per te vrare njeri-tjetrin,por eshte loja,qe e shpiku SHBA per perqarje ne mbrendesi te İslamit.İshte e vetmja mundesi,rruge e SHBA per ti realizuar qellimet e tyre.
    Ndersa,ne islam,ai njeri,ai popull apo ai vend i cili del jashte fjales se Zotit nuk eshte musliman.Ku qendron dallimi ne mes SUnni dhe Shi'i.
    Besimi i Sunni;Besim ne Allah xh.sh.,ne Muhammed a.s.(edhe ne pengamber te tjere), ne Liberin e shenjet(Kur'an) si dhe ne hadithet.
    Besimi i Shi'i; Besim ne Allah xh.sh., ne Ali a.s.(e jo ne Muhammed a.s.),ne Liberin e Shenjet(Kur'an),si dhe ne disa adete te mbetur nga tradita e tyre.
    Ndryshuar për herë të fundit nga Irfan : 26-05-2005 më 11:49
    Shqiperi eshte aty ku flitet shqip.....aty ku u nda toka dhe qielli

  7. #27
    i/e regjistruar Maska e Irfan
    Anëtarësuar
    08-07-2002
    Vendndodhja
    Aty ku Allahu me krijoji
    Postime
    464
    Citim Postuar më parë nga Prof Dr SamSung
    Qellimi i Amerikes nuk eshte as qellimi nobel i kryqezatave ..
    Sa per kete po ndegjohet neper burqe se çka po bejn.Duke hedhur neper vende te ndytura Kuranin(L.i shenjet),duke i vrare njerzit te kryqezuar.......
    Citim Postuar më parë nga Prof Dr SamSung
    As ne Irak as ne Kosove.
    Mos e ngatrro luften ne mes Kosoves dhe Irakut....!!!
    Shqiperi eshte aty ku flitet shqip.....aty ku u nda toka dhe qielli

  8. #28
    i/e regjistruar
    Anëtarësuar
    10-09-2004
    Postime
    2,389
    Citim Postuar më parë nga Irfan
    Pershendetje ''xeni''

    Perqindja e Kurdeve eshte e perafert e sakt.

    Sa e di une,perqindja me madhe eshte e Sunni se sa e Shi'a,e kam fjalen ne Irak.Per kete info. po e shkruaj duke u mbeshtetur ne disa info. qe i kam marre nga disa irakijan(Sunni) qe studijojn ne Turki.Ndersa ne Iran,perqindja eshte me e madhe e Shi'a se sa e sunni.
    [/COLOR]
    Pershendetje Irfan,

    Sipas faqes se CIA-s, prej ku e kam marre informacionin:
    Country: Iraq
    Religions:
    Muslim 97% (Shi'a 60%-65%, Sunni 32%-37%), Christian or other 3%

    http://cia.gov/cia/publications/fact...iz.html#People

  9. #29
    i/e regjistruar Maska e Irfan
    Anëtarësuar
    08-07-2002
    Vendndodhja
    Aty ku Allahu me krijoji
    Postime
    464
    Citim Postuar më parë nga [xeni]
    Pershendetje Irfan,

    Sipas faqes se CIA-s, prej ku e kam marre informacionin:
    Country: Iraq
    Religions:
    Muslim 97% (Shi'a 60%-65%, Sunni 32%-37%), Christian or other 3%

    http://cia.gov/cia/publications/fact...iz.html#People
    Tash edhe e kuptova.Pajtohem me ju,Pasi lexova disa shkrime u binda se perqindja e shi'i eshte me e madhe.

    Citim Postuar më parë nga http://vialardi.org/IRAQ/shiites.html
    Most experts are certain that Iraqi Shiites, who make up some 60 percent of Iraq’s population, will play a leading role in the reconstituted country...
    ............. ................. ..................
    Shiites, who account for 10 percent to 20 percent of the world’s Muslims,
    Shqiperi eshte aty ku flitet shqip.....aty ku u nda toka dhe qielli

  10. #30
    Xeni.

    I lexova me shume vemendje ato qe ke vene ne shkrimin tend te shkeputura nga Washington Post.
    Per kete falemnderit se nuk e kisha nje informacion te tille.

    Bazuar ne shkrimin po e "pranojme" qe SHBA e paska furnizuar Irakun me lende te tilla biologjike dhe kimike.
    Por si te justifikohet perdorimi tyre nga forcat irakiane kunder popullsise se vendit te vet?!
    Eshte e vertete se cdo vend ka ne arsenalin e vet ushtarak dhe arme te tilla biologjike dhe kimike (mesa di une eshte nenshkruar nje traktat per eleminimin e plote te tyre sepse dhe Shqiperia paska patur nje arsenal gjigant armesh te tilla) dhe pavaresisht se si ka arritur t'i siguroje ato,eshte e pajustifikueshme te perdoren ato kunder popullit tend.

    Amerika ka strategjine e saj ne te gjitha ceshtjet qe kane te bejne me ruajtjen e interesave te saj ne bote sepse eshte nje shtet i madh dhe si i tille ka dhe probleme te medha.
    Shiko pas Luftes se II Boterore se sa vatra lufte ka hapur dhe ka shuar SHBA sepse ne ate kohe ekzistonte Lufta e Ftohte.
    Rivaliteti me BSovjetik i shtrengoi SHBA qe te investojne ne arsenalin ushtark me miliarda dollare (buxheti vjetor i atyre viteve arrinte deri 800-900 miliarde$) dhe ne te njejten kohe te kerkoje aleanca ne zona sa me afer kufinjve te BSovjetik.
    Pa keto aleanca rreziku i komunizmit do te ishte shume i madh sepse BSovjetik kishte kufinj qe fillonin nga Berlini,Konispoli dhe Kuba e deri ne Indokine.
    Pjese e ketij rivaliteti pra ishte krijimi i sateliteve proamerikane qe te perballonte keto pasoja.Nder te tjera SHBA kerkoi zona te ndikimit te saj dhe ne boten islamike dhe arriti deri diku te kete ndikimin e saj si ne Iran,Turqi,Arabi Saudite,Kuvajt etj.
    Pikerisht revolucioni islamik i Iranit coi ne prishjen e ekuilibrave strategjike te vendosura deri atehere (ai revolucion u pershendet me te madhe nga vendet komuniste e nder to dhe nga Enver Hoxha).
    Doemos qe SHBA do te kerkonte aleate te tjere qofte dhe ato te strofulles se gjarperinjve irakiane per te mbrojtur ekuilibrin e prishur dhe per kete qellim ajo perdori te gjitha mjetet e duhura dhe te nevojshme (perkrahjen e Sadamit ne luften e tij me Iranin).Duket absurde sot por atehere ishte e justifikueshme.
    Ka qene ky interes qe SHBA instaloi regjime proamerikane ne Kore,ne Greqi,ne Turqi etj dhe qe fale atij interesi keto shtete gezojne kete stabilitet qe kane sot (nga ky interes Greqia dhe Turqia u pranuan ne NATO dhe Greqia me pas ne BE).
    Pra ne njeren ane kishim nje lufte ne Afganistan (SHBA e perkrahu ate fuqimisht per te ruajtur ekuilibrin),ne anen tjeter kishim revolucionin islamik te Iranit,ne Turqi ishte levizja kurde e ndihmuar nga BSovjetik per te dobesuar Turqine dhe per te dobesuar dhe ndikimin amerikan aty (Turqia ishte roja e Dardaneleve dhe e Mesdheut bashke me Greqine ne kohen kur ne Vlore ishin nendeteset sovjetike),ne anet tjera kishim nje rritje te ndikimit sovjetik ne shume vende arabe (Libine e Kadafit e je sere vende te tjera)etj.

    Pa hyre shume se s'ja vlen me duhet te them se gjithcka nderroi pas mbarimit te Luftes se Ftohte.
    Doli ne nevoje krijimi i nje rendi te ri boteror permes ekuilibrave te reja.
    Pjese e ketij rendi te ri boteror ishte shpartallimi i Jugosllavise,shpartallimi i regjimeve diktatoriale ne Evropen Lindore,shpartallimi i diktaturave ne shtetet e ish-BS dhe ne vendet arabe.
    Politika eshte e tille sa ai qe ishte aleat ne nje kohe te caktuar u be armik ne nje kohe tjeter.Keshtu ndodhi me Jugosllavine e Milosheviqit,Irakun e Sadamit e keshtu do te ndodhe dhe me cdo shtet qe behet pengese e rendit te ri boteror.
    Ne politike nuk ka dashuri por ka mbrojtje te interesave afatshkurtera dhe afatgjata.
    per kete duhet qe politika te jete fleksible e jo e ngurte.
    Marrim shembullin e kombit shqiptar.
    Ishin interesat amerikane ne Ballkan qe cuan ne shpartallimin e Jugosllavise dhe krijimit te shteteve te reja te pavarura.Pikerisht se Serbia beri nje loje qe dilte ne kundershtim me ato interesa ajo u denua dhe si rrjedhoje ndodhen bombardimet e me pas largimi i trupave serbe nga Kosova (nuk u be as kjo nderhyrje per humanizem).
    Jane po keto interesa qe cuan ne mbrojtjen e shqiptareve ne Maqedoni e Presheve-Bujanovc e Medvegje e ndoshta do te jene keto interesa qe do te zgjidhin ne nje te ardhme dhe problemin e shqiptareve ne Greqi.

    Megjithate shqiptaret nuk duhet te bejne dashuri diplomatike me SHBA sepse gjithmone dashuria e ka nje fund (sic ndodhi me BS,me Kinen gjate sundimit komunist etj).

    Politika eshte interes!
    Ajo qe per ne duket si e padrejte per dike tjeter eshte e drejte!
    Pra politika dhe interesat nenkuptojne perdorimin e te gjitha mjeteve per te arritur qellimin.
    Humanizmi vlen per OJQ e grupimet fetare por ai nuk vlen per politiken dhe interesat strategjike.
    Lufta ne Irak eshte zhvilluar ne emer te vendosjes se rendit te ri boteror dhe per kete duhej keputur nyja gordiane irakiane me shpate.
    Mbajtja e statuskuose vecse i acaronte me shume problemet (eshte njesoj si nje dhemballe krejtesisht e infektuar e cila rrezikon te semure gjithe trupin nese nuk shkulet) dhe trimeronte diktaturen.
    Pas kesaj lufte nisen te zene mend dhe shume regjime te tjera te cilat kane nisur reformimin demokratik sepse pane nje shembull se cafre ndodh nese nuk i bindesh rregullit te ri.
    Nuk mund te kete nje bote te qete e te rregullt pa nje rregullator!

    Gjithesesi Xeni dhe shume te tjere ju lexoj me shume kenaqesi!

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