Holokausti dhe revizionimi i historise. Debat

[R2T]

Toro sic e permendi dhe KVS-ja me lart!

Pergjigjet e tua jane te pyetjeve qe kane bere vete cifutet. Brenda mundesive ma shpjego se si arrite tek numri 6 miljone? Pse 6 e jo 16 apo 26 apo vetem 1?
Te rrikujtoj dhe nje here qe deri ne vitin 1941 cifutet nuk coheshin ne kampe por vetem, deportoheshin nga Gjermania, pra coheshin ne Angli apo Amerike. Nga 1941-1944 kapaciteti i kampit ishte 30 veta ne dite (sic supozojne vete ata qe cliruan kampin) nga 1944-1945 kapaciteti i kampit ishte 700-800 veta ne dite, ne kater dhomat e gazit, por nuk mendohet te kete arritur kurre me teper se 500. Ne baze te ketyre shifrave, qe vete analistet japin, me trego se si dole tek numri 6 miljone.

Ta thashe dhe me pare, kur ti pergjigjesh kesaj pyetjeje logjike, une do te te sjell dhe dhjetra te tjera, po logjike. Nje njeri me nje inteligjence mediokre, ne baze te pyetjeve e pergjigjeve, do nxirte vete te verteten.

gjithe te mirat

[fotjon]

Holocaust Revisionism?
ky sit http://www.zundelsite.org/index.html eshte i preferuari im.
ka dhe adresa te siteve te tjera, nga mund te shkarkosh pdf te ndryshme mbi kete teme

[Kryeplaku]

Sa e vertet eshte qe ekzistojne Hebrejte aq e vertet eshte qe u perndoqen e u shkatruan fizikisht (sidomos gjate L2B). Problemi eshte se gjithe fajin ja hodhen Hitlerit (sigurisht ai ishte "kasapi") kurse ata qe ia lane Hitlerit doren e lire (kryesisht kur behej fjale per Hebrejte) dolen pastaj dhe na u shfaqen si humaniste!

Nje pyetje qe mbetet eshte:

U denuan ndonjehere shkaktaret e Holokaustit?

Pergjigja eshte: u dekoruan ne universitetet e Bashkimit Sovjetik, Frances dhe sigurisht te SHBAs! Do thoshte dikush se edhe vet konkurenca e BS me SHBAn kush te hynte e para ne Berlin u be me shume per vjedhjen e dokumentacioneve/analizave gjermane. Hitlerin e quajten te gjithe te c'mendur por metodat e tij u nguten ti fusin neper laboratoret e tyre dhe ti zhvillojne me teper (dhe ku i dihet.... mbase nje dite do vije koha qe do i perdorin perseri, sigurisht te modifikuara..... kesaj here kush do e ket radhen?). Kurse per popullin mjaftohen ne xhirimin e filmave per gjenocidin dhe me clirimtarin amerikan qe hap dyert e Aushvicit. Cdo film te thote: larg qofte ajo dite kur nacionalizmi dhe rracizmi arriten ne kulm shkatrues, por asnje film nuk te thote larg qofte ajo dite kur teknologjia shkatroi cdo vlere njerezore!

[Kryeplaku]

Shifrat mund te debatohen si nga njera ane ashtu dhe nga ana tjeter. Personalisht, problemi im eshte vemendja e madhe qe i jepet, kur sidomos ne US jane te heshtur persa u perket genocideve te tjera ne histori. Holocaust eshte kthyer ne nje industry (librash, fimash) perfitimi.
Akoma nuk eshte pranuar genocidi ne Ukraine nga Stalini, ne 1932-1933 ku miliona njerez vdiqen nga uria, me force(shifra maksimale e dhene eshte 7 milione.) Stalini me shoke e jystifikoi: "Bluntly put, if you want to make an omelette, you have to break some eggs!"
Edhe pse gazetaret amerikane te New York Times ishin te pranishem, ata e mohuan kete tragjedi.
Ne US, genocidi me i madh eshte bere ndaj Native Americans, ku, ne baze te projektimit te rritjes se popullesise, supozohet se 200 milione njerez jane zhdukur. Ne fund te fundit, sot, ata jane me pak se 5% e popullesise prej 300 milionesh. Por kinematografia amerikane akoma vazhdon t'i pasqyroje "Indianet" si njerez te eger.
Genocidi i Armenise nga Turqia, (1 milione e ca) u soll para disa vitesh ne Kongres per t'u njohur, por me ne fund rezoluta nuk u aprovua. Fatkeqesisht nuk me kujtohet me sa vota humbi.

Nuk kam pasur ndonjehere ndonje simpati te vecante ndaj Hebrejve, as te kunderten, por holokausti gezon me te vertet vemendje dhe emancipim. Ato gjenocidet qe permendni ju jane shume pak ne numer po te mendosh sa gjenocide jane bere deri me sot. Por perseri nuk mund te krahasohen me holokaustin..... sepse ajo qe i ndryshon nuk eshte numri i te vdekurve por eshte menyra si u be ky gjenocid.

Personalisht jam krenar per njohurite e mija historike dhe me thene te drejten nga gjithe ata libra qe kam lexuar, mbi lashtesine, mesjeten apo kohen moderne nuk kam gjetur ndonje gjenocid te vlefshem per tu krahasuar me holokaustin. Nese dini ju ndonje ju lutem ma tregoni!

Shume mbreter, perandore, gjenarale etj. kane organizuar gjenocide por pothuajse ne shumicen e rasteve kane pasur nje qellim: pastrimin e zones se influences se tyre nga nje element i huaj/armik/kercenues per ta apo per eliten qe ata perfaqesonin.

Ne rastin e holokaustit nuk ndodhi kjo gje, eshte e kote ajo qe bejne disa duke i dhene holokaustit shkaqe te perngjasuara me gjenocidet e tjera. Qellimi i holokaustit nuk ishte qe te pastrohej Gjermania apo Europa nga Hebrejte por qe te zhduket cdo individ Hebre anemban botes vetem pse ishte hebre! Dhe kjo gje eshte me te vertet pertej cdolloj llogjike dhe personalisht nuk e kam hasur ne asnje rast tjeter historik! Gjithashtu po te mendosh menyren, vendin edhe kohen (ne Europen moderne ne mes te shekullit te 20) kur u realizua te ben perseri ta vecosh nga cdo rast tjeter!

Sidoqofte jam ndakort qe ekzistojne shume mistere dhe ane te pazbuluara te holokaustit!

Persa i perket atyre elementeve qe permend R2T une nuk jam fizikant apo kimist qe te te pergjigjem...... por une dua vetem te shenosh nje rast, nga te shumtat.... Sipas statistikave zyrtare greke, ne vitin 1940 qyteti i Selanikut bahohej nga nje komunitet prej mbi 400 000 Hebrejsh, kurse me statistikat e pas luftes ky komunitet ishte me i vogel se 2000 individe, kurse te tjeret shfaqeshin si te humbur! Ishte hera e pare qe Selanikun mund ta quaje me gojen plote 'qytet grek'. Dhe nuk duhet te harrojme se Greqia, ne krahasim me pjesen tjeter te Europes, nuk eshte njohur ndonjehere si shtet me komunitet te madh hebraik!

Holokausti ja vlen qe te vashdoj te reklamohet por jo me qellimin qe te perputhemi me Izraelin apo me fene judahike por me qellimin qe te marrim mesim per te mos perseritur me ato gabime shtazore te historise!

[fotjon]

Sipas statistikave zyrtare greke, ne vitin 1940 qyteti i Selanikut bahohej nga nje komunitet prej mbi 400 000 Hebrejsh, kurse me statistikat e pas luftes ky komunitet ishte me i vogel se 2000 individe, kurse te tjeret shfaqeshin si te humbur!

Kryeplake, shiko mos ke shtuar ndonje zero teper. Jo ti, po gabimisht aty ku e ke pare. (Per te humbur e ke fjalen per te vdekur)

Humbjet ne njerez ne wwII mund ti kotrollosh ne shume vende. Nga ato qe kam pare une , humbjet e greqise maksimalisht vlersohen 520.000 dhe burime te tjera prestigjoze si wikipedia 300.000(280.000 civile).

http://www.486th.org/Photos/Misc/stats.htm
sipas kesaj 415.000 civile (260.000 vdekur nga uria)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_War_II_casualties

per cifutet e vrare ne greqi sipas burimeve te ndryshme:
(http://users.erols.com/mwhite28/ww2stats.htm)
Greece
Harper Collins: 71,301 Jews k
Messenger: 67,000
Johnson: 65,000
Davies: 57,000-60,000


398.000 mbase zene vend te nje opsion 12 milion te vrare qe u mendua te deklarohej fillimisht.

shifrat e mesiperme i mbulon 6 milionshi.

[D@mian]

Sipas statistikave zyrtare greke, ne vitin 1940 qyteti i Selanikut bahohej nga nje komunitet prej mbi 400 000 Hebrejsh, kurse me statistikat e pas luftes ky komunitet ishte me i vogel se 2000 individe, kurse te tjeret shfaqeshin si te humbur!

Selaniku ka pasur 40 000 (dyzet mije), jo 400 000 hebrej para luftes. Sidoqofte ke te drejte kur thua qe u shfarosen pothuajse te gjithe.

Nga kotaktet e kufizuara personale qe kam pasur me hebrej mund te them se jane ne pergjithesi individe profesionalisht dhe socialisht teper te afte dhe me nje kulture te larte qytetare (cka eshte normale po te mendosh se si popull jane banues qytetesh brez pas brezi ketu e mjaft shekuj). Personalisht mendoj se jane te admirueshem...

[Kryeplaku]

Nuk e di nga dalin kaq kopetente sipershkruajtesit per te ulur apo ngritur xerot, nderkohe qe nuk jane thjesht disa xero por jane shpirtra njerezish. Por sidoqofte ja u rikujtoj se qysh ne shek. e 16 hebrejte kane qene komuniteti me i madh ne numer i Selanikut, pas shpernguljes te dhunshme se tyre nga gadishulli iberik -i ripushtuar nga te krishteret- dhe vendosjes se tyre me lejen e sulltanit ne kete qytet.

[fotjon]

Ne nentor fillon gjyqi i Ernst Zundel
http://www.zundelsite.org/index.html

(se kuptoj c`domethene kompetent, e pse te duhet. Ta zeme se ka nje master ne histori, do me merrje per kompetent per holokaustin?
Per "xerot" nuk besoj se duhet te ndihemi ne ne faj, edhe ata qe vdiqen nuk i vrame ne)

[fotjon]

Arrestohet dhe historiani i njohur David Irving me te njejten akuze.
(Librat e David Irving mund te shkarkohen nga http://www.fpp.co.uk/books/)


David Irving Arrested
Charged with denying the holocaust
Noted author, David Irving, has been arrested by police in Austria after his car was stopped for a roadside check.

Authorities in Vienna said that the 67-year-old author was being held under a warrant issued in November 1989 for speeches which were considered to break domestic laws preventing active denial of the Holocaust.

The offence carries a maximum sentence of 20 years in prison.

Irving was arrested on November 11, 2005 but has been held incommunicado since then and only on November 18 was news of his arrest leaked to the press.

The charges stemmed from speeches Mr Irving delivered in Vienna and in the southern town of Leoben in 1989.

Christoph Poechinger, a spokesman for the Austrian Justice Ministry, said it was likely that charges would be pressed against Irving and that he would be kept in custody until the case came to court.

Irving, he was arrested by police who allegedly learned of his visit "by wiretaps or intercepting e-mails," En route to Austria, Irving had privately visited German playwright Rolf Hochhuth, a friend he had not seen in 20 years.

Hochhuth has gained notoriety for plays criticizing the Allies' bombing campaigns during World War II as war crimes and characterizing Winston Churchill as a war criminal. Earlier this year, Hochhuth was criticized for defending Irving as "an honorable man" and insisting he was not a Holocaust denier.

[fotjon]

()
David Irving, the British historian arrested by Austrian government officers last year for denying the Holocaust, claims now Hitler’s liquidation of six million Jews took place after all. Having learned the error of his ways, how can you continue to believe that the German Nazis never engaged in a deliberate plan to exterminate God’s Chosen People?

In the early 1600s, an Italian astronomer proved that the Earth orbits the Sun. While taken for granted today (save perhaps by certain African tribes and Evangelical Christians), Galileo Galilei’s observation was condemned as the most heinous crime, because the authorities of his day insisted that the entire universe revolved around themselves. When brought to trial, the scientist declared that it would be "a terrible detriment for the very souls of people if they found themselves convinced by proof of something that it was made a sin to believe."

But his judges were unmoved. They condemned Galilei’s book as "false and erroneous" before destroying all copies, instructed him to henceforward neither "hold nor defend" all blasphemous nonsense about the Sun or Earth, and enjoined him from "teaching or discussing these ideas in any way." Faced with "perpetual imprisonment", the ailing old man "abjured, cursed and detested" his unpopular findings. Having thus recanted the truth under duress, his sentence was commuted to house arrest. He died a prisoner in his own home, unable to share his paradigm-shattering discovery with the outside world. Galileo’s forced denial did not prevent the Earth from orbiting the Sun anymore than Irving’s recantation killed six million Jews. Although separated by four hundred years, both men shared a common fate, because their discoveries struck at the Big Lie upon which the respective tyrannies of their times stood. Their books were destroyed, their findings condemned as the most offensive heresy, and either man was imprisoned for speaking his opinions.

Their common fate makes it difficult to tell the difference between a 17th Century Inquisition and 21st Century democracy. As Lincoln Rockwell, the founder of American National Socialism, was fond of pointing out, "Under phony ‘democracies’ where freedom of expression is supposedly allowed, you are allowed to criticize anyone except the tyrants actually in power. In Cuba, you have freedom to criticize anyone except Castro. In China, you have freedom to criticize anyone except the Communists. In the West, you have freedom to criticize anyone except the Jews. That should show you who and what are the real masters of modern society!"

Acknowledgment of Galileo’s conclusions would have utterly destroyed the very premise upon which his accusers based their political power. Acknowledgment of Irving’s conclusions would no less destroy the very premise upon which today’s tyrants base their political power. With no "Holocaust", the many billions of dollars in bogus "reparations" bilked from the German people to prop up the parasitic, antagonistic state of Israel would no longer be justified. With no "Holocaust", the Jews would be exposed as the greatest liars of all time. With no "Holocaust", their high moral ground against all forms of criticism and exposure would be forever lost. With no "Holocaust", Adolf Hitler and National Socialism can no longer be portrayed as the most wicked man and phenomenon of all time, leaving the door open to a positive reassessment of the man and his work for emulation. With no "Holocaust", all those teachers, historians, preachers, authors, movie-makers, politicians, and judges who have based their careers on it for the last sixty years would be shown up as the biggest fools and liars in history.

This understood, the similarly harsh treatment meted out to Galileo Galilei and David Irving becomes comprehensible. Moreover, Irving, like Galileo, is a scientist, not a National Socialist. He, too, is an old man threatened with a heavy sentence even a younger man would find challenging. As such, he is not expected to defy his judges, as Hermann Goering or Julius Streicher did at Nuremberg, although they, too, were condemned for telling the truth about the Jews.

Like them and his Italian predecessor, Irving’s plight shines a spotlight on the mean-spirited, remorseless Jewocracy that runs the world far brighter than any book he could ever hope to write.