Kisha Serbe dhe urrejtja ne Ballkan

[Seminarist]

Mu me vje keq te te le pa pergjigje ty...!

Ti akoma kembengul kot se koti me ca aludime te pabaza. Ti thu se kisha ka beku Arkanin! Por nuk me ke dhene asnje fakt per kete gje. A e kupton dot se cfare eshte fakti?
A po mos do te me thush se "fakti" se qeveria shqiptare tha se kisha katolike rrute arme nen l'ter per me shkatru pushtetin popullor, eshte fakt thjesht sepse keshtu thote qeveria??????
A e kupton dot deregjen e mendimeve te tua?

Duhet fakt per akuzat e tua: ku, kur e ka beku? Kush e ka beku? Ne cfare ceremonie? Ne emer te kishes ortodokse serbe u be bekimi? Nese po, u be bekim per te vra njerez per qejf te serbevet?

A e kupton dot? Jo me kot, pikerisht per shkak te lehtesive te mentaliteteve te tua, e u be e mundur qe ne Shqiperi te krijohej nje mendesi aq armiqesore e trilluar kundrejt Fese e Zotit per 50 vjet.


Pastaj ti Cyclotomic, ti as qe merr vesht....por kur te them as qe e merr vesht, du te them SE QE IA KE IDENE, se cfare do te thote "ndarje" e kishave ortodokse ne autoqefale.....edhe aq me teper se perse kisha ne Shqiperi, nuk udhehiqet, sepse udheheqja e saje eshte Sinodi, ka per kryepiskop nje grek.

Ji i sinqerte - nqs nuk ke pergjigje, nuk ke pse te japesh medoemos te tilla. Une spo te pyes per matematike e filozofi....

[dodoni]

Ky shkrimtari serb po e thotë tamam të vërtetën, po sjell fakte dhe shkaqet që çuan në çmendurinë serbe të kësaj dekade të fundit.
Edhe ky patjetër sikur Bogdanoviçi e serbët tjerë të mençur nuk guxojnë të jetojnë në Serbi sikur që një i mençur nuk guxon të jetoj midis të çmendurve.

Kujt do që ka dëshirë t'i shoh të gjalla deklaratat, porositë, bekimet, dekoratat e patriarkut Pavle bërë Karaxhiqit, Mladiçit, Arkanit për krimet dhe masakrat e këtij dhjetëvjeçari të fundit mund të më kontaktoj mua se ja gjej dhe ja dërgoj unë vidiot.

[Qafir Arnaut]

Qe kisha serbe te jete nacionaliste, dmth ne qender te identitetit nacional-spiritual te serbeve, nuk ka asgje te keqe.

Me demek eshte OK per Kishen e Serbise me qene nacionaliste por jo per ate te Shqiperise? Le te mos i shkoje ndermend askujt qe Kisha e Serbise eshte mike e Shqiptareve ...ajo eshte e zhytyr deri ne fyt ne politike genocidale ndaj popujve te tjere. Disa kisha shqiptare ne US dolen haptaz dhe demaskuan qendrimin pro-Serb te kishave te tjera Ortodokse te Amerikes. Shpresoj qe Seminaristi e 'kuadrot' e tjere te KOASH-it te nxjerrin mesimet e duhura e t'ia heqin veshin si-motres te tyre.

[Seminarist]

Une kisha me ju lute, se kush e ka ne video apo ne cfaredo FAKTI, por ama FAKT, kete bekim, qe ju keni qejf me i qujte "bekim topash, e Arkanash", me na i sjelle ne forum, qe te ndricohena e mos te vdesim injoranta edhe te tjeret.

Une jua solla nje FAKT: qendrimin e patrikut Pavle, dmth te Kishes serbe.

A, esht tjeter gje, nqs juve ecni me parimin e patriotit e nacionalistiti shqiptar , Nuh Muses, noshta i frymezum prej komandant Pucit, qe revista Spiegel e kishte qit me nji shall ne kry, "Allahu Akber", tek luftote maqedonsit:

O shok, shiptarit nuk ka ti interesoj, se cfare VLERE ka nje artikull negativ mbvi serbien, dhe cfare te "vertetash" apo "genjeshtrash" apo "pasaktesi" gjinden ne te. Mjafton te njollos serbine, PIK!

atehere, ju hap rruge...une, por jo historia!


[ Nuh Musa nuk eshte "maqedons" po eshte shqiptar. Mos ofendo klod seminaristi!! ]

[Seminarist]

Qafir Arnaut,

une asnjehere se kam mohu nacionalizmin, as ate te kishes shqiptare. Perkundrazi, e kam theksu disa here se nje i krishtere nuk mundet mes me qene nacionalist. Por po ashtu kam THEKSU mire, se nacionalizmi kristian eshte i tille si kristian edhe human, e nuk ka te beje fare me perkufizimet qe kushdo tjete mund ti beje nacionalizmit. Kristianizmi e frymezon nacionalizmin, persa kohe qe ky mbeshtetet ne te VERTETEN edhe Humanizmin, edhe te miren e perbashket, e aspak ne racizmin, fodullekun, mashtrimin, paditurine.

Ceshtja Janullatos, qe ti do ne e lidh me nacionalizmin, ne fakt, eshte me teper, ne te kundert, nje problem i vetevrasjes se nacionalizmit nga vete shqiptaret, gje qe e beri te detyrueshme sjelljen e nje te huaji aty. Prandaj edhe ata qe marrin vesh me shume se ty, si Liolini, thane, se po te ish gjalle Noli, do te ish mik ma Janullatosin!



[ Mos e zgjat muhabetin ]

[StterollA]

Ja FAKTIN qe po kerkon ti me foto. Bekimi i Arkanit nga patriarku Pavle. Ndersa ne librin "The Crimes of Amfilohije" mund te mesosh se se ky i fundit, Amfilohije, ka strehuar Arkanin deri pak para se te vritet ne nje kohe kur ky ishte shpallur si i kerkuar per krime lufte. Gjithashtu ne kete te liber mund te mesosh edhe se si ne Prill te 1993 Pavle dhe Amfilohije inkurajuan serbet te refuzojne planin paqesor Vance-Owen per Bosnjen dhe ngriten idene per Serbine e Madhe.

Seminarist, shteti dhe kisha orthodokse ne Serbi historikisht kane qene te lidhura ngushte njera me tjetren. Nje nder perhapesit me te medhenj te nacjonalizmit serb dhe urrejtjes ndaj vendeve tjera Ballakanike, sidomos ato ish Jugosllave, eshte vete kisha. Jo me kot kisha orthodokse serbe thirret Kisha NACIONALE Orthodokse Serbe.

[Seminarist]

Nji sekond!

1. Mashtrimi ka per At, Djallin, thote Bibla, e prej tij (Djallit) vjen kushdo qe mashtron. Keshtu qe te dashtun me pas pak kujdes, para se tia shisni shpirtin atij.


Po me thoni se kjo foto eshte PROVE e jo MASHTRIM, kur ajo ta ben muuuuu se jane dy foto te bashkangjitme ne dy terrene te ndryshme?


2. A e kuptoni dot valle se cfare eshte nje FAKT?

Dmth, mos valle nje foto e Arkanit, po te jete, mes priftave ortodoks ne cafredo sebepi, e ben Arkanin automatikisht te bekum prej Kishes per cfaredo gje qe ai ben ne jete??????

3. Kush ka mundesi prej jush specialistave muslimane e kosovare me na tregu se cfare eshte

procesi i bekimit ne kishat ortodokse ne raste lufte apo ndaj nje personi? Cfare procedure permban ky proces e bekim e si zyrtarizohet, ne menyre qe te quhet bekim i gjithe kishes ortodokse te vendit, i.e serbise?


4. Tjeter,


une kam ketu vete patrikun Pavle qe flet per veten! Perse mu dashka te bazohem ne cfaredo shkrimtari? Thjesht sepse ata jan serb? Te qenit serb eshte matesi per vertetesine e nje libri? A e kuptoni dot qorrsokakun e mosseriozitetit te mendimeve tuaja, qe ne fakt vjen nga deshira me e demonizu medoemos ate kishe?

Dmth, po te vazhdojme keshtu, atehere i bie qe librat qe paskan shkrujt shqiptaret kundra feve ne Shqiperi, te jene te verteta, thjesht, meqe ato i kane shkrujt autore shqiptare!!!!!!


5. Te thush qe kisha serbe ka qene lidhur ngushte me kombin serb, nuk ka asgje te keqe. Ashtu qofshin te gjitha kishat mbare botes. Por te thush qe kisha serbe ka perhape urrejtje, kjo eshte keqdashje e mirefillte.

Ne kishen serbe jane eduku sa e sa prelate shqiptare, mes te tjeresh vete Irine Banushi. Apo do harojme Viktor Mihajlovic-in qe ndihmoi ne krijimin e autoqefalise shqiptare! Apo s'ju interesojne fare kto?


Kush thote se kisha ortodokse ka edhe ushqen edhe sot urrejtje...LE TE DALE ME FAKTE REALE, qe ta mesojme edhe ne.
Une ju dola me FAKT qe ajo nuk ushqen urrejtje te tilla.


Ne ate liber perflitet edhe Nikolai Velimirovic....

Ju lutem kerkojeni ne internet jeten edhe vepren e tij, e ecni e me thoni se cili nga figurat fetare te te gjitha feve ne Shqiperi qendron me larte se ai, si ne kontributin shpirteror, humanizem, kristianizem e fe, e ne cdo fushe tjeter.
Kush mund ta shaje ate person vecse nje serb anti-ortodoks, ndoshta komunist?

[AsgjëSikurDielli]

Easter Proclamation to the Serbian People of Kosovo and Metohia

Spiritual children who love Christ and believe in Him, Christ is risen!

For years we have been led through roadless areas, rarely trodden before, and here we are, brought not to the brink, but to the very bottom of disaster. Unfortunately, not only domestic evil, but also foreign evil contributed to this situation and created it. Due to that, every day, bombs and missiles, fall on our holy places and buildings, on our homes, on our villages and towns, taking away from us, bit by bit, our spiritual, national and biological being. To comfort us and to compensate for what we are losing, the present authorities (whose disastrous politics, in the past ten years, has led us to the present situation) offer, night and day, films full of partisan ideals, fratricidal hate and poisonous godlessness, and occasionally interrupt them by news full of untruths and half-truths.

However bitter these facts may be, there is and there can be no excuse for this irrational, criminal action of NATO alliance, which tries, by its insane politics and by its characteristic arrogance, to cure evil by using evil, to prevent and alleviate suffering of innocent victims on Kosovo and Methohia regardless of their nationalities and religious feelings, by using force and violence. Indeed, no reason can ever be provided for this action, therefore it will remain the blackest spot on the conscience of humanity at the end of 20th century. This is, actually, a cause-consequence relation, when one evil causes another, very often much bigger and even worse, thus enlarging and expanding the spiral of evil and violence on one side, and afflictions of innocent people on the other side. Just like the God's word says: "One woe is past, and, behold, there come two woes more hereafter". (Revelation of St. John 9:12).

The evils we endure and suffer (the one imposed by the authorities, the other by the Albanians, and the third by NATO) do not depend on us, we cannot influence the length of their duration or the moment of their ceasing. That is within the scope of those people who have, as always, decided about the life and death of the whole nation.

The third evil, which is the most fatal for all of us, depends solely on ourselves. Whether we shall be and remain humane or inhumane persons, whether we shall be real brothers to one another and good neighbors to the peoples of other nations and religions, whether we shall use this chaotic situation to do good or bad to our neighbor, depends solely and exclusively on us. If we are Christians, if we are people, then we should abide by the words of the holy Gospel: "Therefore all thing whatsoever ye would that men should do to you, do ye even so to them". (Matthew 7:127).

None of us wants to be humiliated, tortured, robbed of killed by anybody. Unfortunately, to our disgrace and shame, we can hear that things like that happen in many places, and they are done by unreasonable individuals or groups, who, by using the absence of firm law, order and system, inflict pain to one anther, burglarize and rob stores and houses of their neighbors, take away things and kidnap people, torture and kill one another. By such behavior, the evil grows and multiplies, so as to return to us in the end, as a boomerang, with even bigger fury and force.

Therefore We, as your spiritual Shepherd, appeal and plead: In order to stop evil, violence and ruin of the peoples of Kosovo and Metohia, which we have been enduring for so long, let us direct the eyes of our heart to Heaven, let us seek and plead for mercy and protection of our only Friend and Protector -- God -- since, now, we do not have any other friend and helper on earth. At the same time, let us do everything, which is up to us, to reduce evil, to avoid evil deeds, and to do good to everyone needing it, since we are all human and have many things in common: both joy, pain, suffering, life and death. Let us not forget that human life is essentially important, and that the only master of every man's life is his Maker God, thus, we do not have the right to deprive each other of that most valuable God's gift. We should especially take care not to violate holy objects, cultural monuments and sacred things of peoples of other religions and nationalities. We appeal to you, our believers, to settle all your disagreements, both those among yourselves and those with the people of other religions and nationalities, peacefully and with dignity, as human beings.

Doing and acting in such manner only, our dear spiritual children, can we hope to see the end of this inflicted pain and destruction and to live to better and happier days in future. Our duty and holy obligation to the generations following, to our descendants, is to leave as inheritance that which we obtained and inherited from our holy ancestors, i.e. true faith and humanity, as well as our good deeds and virtues. Only in such a way, shall we be their model for comparison, and the reason for their feeling of honor and pride for having had such ancestors. If we behave in different way, as inhuman persons, let us ask ourselves what we shall leave to them as inheritance? Only that which they will be ashamed of, when facing themselves and others, for being descendants of such unworthy ancestors.

So, let there be in front of our eyes, on our tongue and in our heart, everyday, these short prayers:

-Lord, give me strength to change what I can change!

-Lord, give me strength to endure what I cannot change!

-And wisdom to distinguish those two!

At the end, in these days of Christ's and our suffering, we greet you all with the greeting of eternal hope and joy.

Christ is risen! Truly He is risen!

Prizren, March 27, 1999

Offering prayers before the countenance of Risen Lord

Bishop + Artemije

[AsgjëSikurDielli]

The Serbian Orthodox Church: Friend or Foe in the New Yugoslavia?

Cynthis Rothschild

As the new government of Yugoslavia takes shape, the separation between church and state is becoming increasingly controversial. Many in the government feel that the Serbian Orthodox Church will be a valuable ally in continuing peace. The new Yugoslavian Prime Minister Zoran Sizic has called for policies to keep Church and State closely intertwined and the new President, Vojislav Kostunica, is backing religious education in public institutions. Yugoslav citizens largely support these measures despite their diversity of beliefs (Serbia alone has 36 different religions). Ties between church and state also affect the finances of the new Republic. Last November, the Saint Sava Church received about 300,000 German Marks from the government. The government also paid for Kostunica's visit to a Serbian Orthodox Monastery. For those who see the close relationship between the Church and state as an important one, spending this relatively small amount of money seems reasonable.

However, in a country where many are going hungry, these expenditures are one reason opponents argue against Church involvement in state affairs. These people—for the most part liberals—fear that ties between the government and the Church might facilitate the development of a clerical state. The new government has reasons to be grateful to the Church. President Kostunica came to power only with the downfall of former President Slobodan Milosevic. Milosevic had a vision of a Greater Serbia cleansed of other ethnic groups, a dream that led to much violence and bloodshed. The Church played a large role in his downfall. However, the Church calling for Milosevic's resignation in June of 1999 was a reversal of their long time support of his policies. Some fear that the Church may be hoping to achieve Milosevic's Greater Serbia through the new government. If this is indeed the case, the Church represents a powerful threat to the country. The recent track record of the Church factors into fears that Church influence would not contribute to increasing democracy in Yugoslavia, and might lead to dangerous religious limits on freedoms. Many liberal Serbians fear that this democracy is already a tenuous one, even without the ties between government and church. These Serbians want to see the emergence of a civil state with clear separation between the powers of government and religion.

The ultimate role of the Church in Yugoslavia's new government has yet to be seen. For the time being, the government has said that religious education will be optional. Public opinion is largely behind the involvement of the Church in state affairs. While some liberal Serbians have reservations about Church involvement, many citizens feel that the Church's role is a positive one. Church and state continue to search for their roles in the future of Yugoslavia and hope that this future is one filled with peace


http://www.fpa.org/newsletter_info24...hodox%20Church

[Seminarist]

Kjo tregon se ti as qe e kupton artikullin, edhe e lexon ate me mendje te erresuar!

Artemije aty eshte duke folur qarte si per te keqiat serbe te vete tyret, ashtu edhe per ate te shqiptarevet. A po mos don te me thuash se nuk ka pas hic?

Ai fajeson, nder te tjera, faktoret e huaj, ne krijimin e kesaj gjendje, e kjo nuk ka pse te beje eksluzivisht me shqiptaret si popull i thjeshte se sa me faktoret kontinental te ndasive te reja politike ne lindje e perendim, ku Jugosllavia ishte pika kyc e bashkimit te tyre, por qe si hynte ne pune ma njeriu, keshtu qe u shperbe.

E kupton dot?

Gjithsesi, juve se keni justifiku ende kete teme. Mos haroni se nuk jemi ne forumin e politikes., ndaj edhe i thashe moderator Cyclotomic qe te mos e hape ketu.