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  1. #1
    Veritas liberatis Vos
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    Helmut Kohl deshte gjysmat e turqve jashte Gjermanise

    Dokumentet konfidenciale britanike zbulojnė se nė vitin 1982, kancelari gjerman Helmut Kohl u pėrpoq tė kryejė njė plan radikal. Ai donte tė zvogėlonte numrin e turqve qė jetonin nė Gjermani me 50 pėr qind brenda katėr vjetėsh.

    • eshte e pamundur te integrosh nje numer kaq te madh turqish.....
    • Gjermania nuk ka probleme me portugezet, italianet apo aziatiket juglindore, sepse ata integrohen sh.mire, kurse turqit vijne nga nje kulture shume te vecante dhe nuk integrohen ( "incapable of integration and, incidentally, unwilling to integrate." )


    per me shume lexoni me poshte


    Unsealed confidential British documents reveal that in 1982, German Chancellor Helmut Kohl tried to carry out a radical plan. He wanted to reduce the number of Turks living in Germany by 50 percent within four years.

    "SECRET," the top of the densely typewritten document reads. Underneath, an official had added a handwritten note: "NOT FOR DISTRIBUTION."

    It was a controversial plan that the newly elected German chancellor, Helmut Kohl, confided to British Prime Minister Margaret Thatcher during her visit to Bonn, then the West German capital. "Chancellor Kohl said (...) over the next four years, it would be necessary to reduce the number of Turks in Germany by 50 percent -- but he could not say this publicly yet," state the secret minutes of the meeting dated Oct. 28, 1982.
    It adds: "It was impossible for Germany to assimilate the Turks in their present numbers." Only four people were in the room at the time: Kohl, his longtime adviser Horst Teltschik, Thatcher and her private secretary A.J. Coles, the author of the document.

    The file, labeled "PREM 19/1036," smells musty. For three decades, the records of the 1982 and 1983 meetings between Kohl and Thatcher have been sealed, inaccessible to ordinary people. But now that the period of confidentiality has expired, the British National Archives has made them available to the public.

    The minutes of the Thatcher meeting outline how Kohl intended to get hundreds of thousands of Turks out of Germany. But they also cast light on how the relationship between the Germans and their Turkish compatriots has improved over the past three decades. Because to a contemporary German sensibility, the apparent social consensus in Kohl's West Germany seems quite far to the right.

    'No Problems with the Portuguese'

    According to the document, Kohl wanted the Turks out. "Germany had no problems with the Portuguese, the Italians, even the Southeast Asians, because these communities integrated well," wrote minute-keeper Coles of the chancellor, who had only been in office for four weeks. "But the Turks came from a very distinctive culture and did not integrate well. [...] Germany had integrated some 11 million Germans from East European countries. But they were European and therefore presented no problem."

    Kohl listed forced marriages and illegal employment by Turks as examples of "a clash of two different cultures." One out of every two should leave, said the chancellor, and those who remain should be provided special schooling. "Those who were to be integrated must learn German."

    The Rhineland native apparently didn't think too highly of immigrants from Turkey's Anatolia region, which made up the country's largest segment of so-called guest workers. Back when Kohl was merely an opposition leader for the center-right Christian Democratic Union -- today the party of Chancellor Angela Merkel -- he described them as "incapable of integration and, incidentally, unwilling to integrate." And in his first policy speech, two weeks before the meeting with Thatcher, he said, "Integration is only possible if the number of foreigners living among us does not increase further." But Kohl concealed his specific plan to get rid of every second Turk within four years, although public outrage would probably have been limited at the time.

    Fear of Being Overrun

    "Back then, the societal consensus in Germany was that Turks were guest workers and would have to go home," Freiburg-based historian and author Ulrich Herbert told SPIEGEL ONLINE. And this wasn't confined to right-leaning political parties like Kohl's CDU, but rather "penetrated deep into the SPD," he added, referring to the center-left Social Democratic Party. SPD member Holger Börner, at the time the governor of the central state of Hesse, said the influx of foreigners had to be "strictly stopped." Kohl's Social Democrat predecessor, Helmut Schmidt, was quoted in the summer of 1982 as saying, "Not one more Turk will come over the border." His chief of staff, Hans-Jürgen Wischnewski, sneered at Muslims who "butcher their sheep in the bathtub."

    Many a German grew tired of having such a large population of guest workers. In 1973, only 12 years after the signing of the immigration agreement with Ankara, the coalition government agreed on stopping recruitment in Turkey. Yet the number of Turks in Germany continued to rise, as women and children joined their male heads of household and, after a coup in Ankara, more and more applied for asylum. By 1982, around 1.5 million Turks were living in Germany. And the country had its own problems to deal with: After the second oil crisis in the early 1980s, the German economy began to slump at rates not seen since World War II. In 1982, 1.8 million people were unemployed -- six times as many as in 1973.

    Many German citizens began to see immigrants as burdens on the social welfare system and competitors for jobs that were rightfully theirs. A 1982 survey conducted by pollster Infas found that 58 percent of Germans wanted to reduce the number of foreigners in the country. "The politicians in Bonn were overwhelmed," said Herbert. "They were afraid of being overrun with Turks, and wanted to get rid of them. But they didn't know how."

    Kohl took a shot at it with his favorite political tool: money. "He intended to capitalize on the (social) insurance payments which Turkish workers had made and give them a lump sum," the Thatcher logs say. Indeed, in 1983 the center-right government approved a law providing limited assistance for foreigners to return to their country of origin. Bonn hoped that a one-time payment of 10,500 deutsche marks and reimbursement of their retirement insurance payments would entice Turks to return home. But the program turned out to be a flop. "Only about 100,000 Turks left," said Herbert. At the same time, tens of thousands continued to come to Germany seeking asylum.

    Kohl's Radical Evolution

    Over the years, the relationship between Germans and Turks improved. A new generation of Turks grew up in Germany, many of them speaking fluent German and integrating well into the dominant culture. After witnessing the brutality of xenophobic riots in the early 1990s in Rostock, Solingen and Hoyerswerda, many Germans developed a sense of solidarity with foreigners. This promoted integration just as much as the reformed immigration policies of the succeeding center-left government, said Herbert. "The societal consensus had changed."

    Kohl himself shifted positions even more radically. In 1993 he went against many in his own party and came out in support of giving automatic German citizenship to third-generation "foreigners" -- children born in Germany whose grandparents had immigrated. Immigrants contributed "enormously to the well-being of Germans" and helped secure their retirement, said the chancellor later in his career. In 2000, Kohl travelled to Istanbul to attend the wedding of his son Peter to a Turkish banker. Full membership in the European Union for Turkey, however, is still an uncomfortable thought for him. Just as it is for the Iron Lady of today, Angela Merkel.
    Der Spiegel
    Shqiperia ka rreshtur se ekzistuari qe kur jevgjit i thane vetes "shqiptar".
    xfiles

  2. #2
    Prof. Dr. Kristal fare!
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    Pėr: Helmut Kohl deshte gjysmat e turqve jashte Gjermanise

    Po te drejte ka patur dhe koha i jep te drejte, shume nga turqit jetojne ne Gjermani ne shoqeri paralele pa asnje kontakt (pervec kontakteve te detyrueshme si pershembull ato te punes) me gjermanet dhe shoqerine gjermane! Ke turq (mqs. ra fjala te njejtin "nam" kane edhe kosovaret) qe pas 40 vitesh ne Gjermani nuk dine te flasin gjermanisht...!

  3. #3
    Moderator Maska e benseven11
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    Pėr: Helmut Kohl deshte gjysmat e turqve jashte Gjermanise

    1.5 million turq ne Gjermani qe prej vitit 1982.Po sot sa jane?Mbase diku 5 miljon turq.
    Ironik eshte fakti qe megjithse Kohli nuk i pelqen turqit,cuni i tij Piter,martohet me nje
    bankiere turke.
    Nje pjese e turqve nuk duan te integrohen,nuk duan as pashaporta,qellimisht
    qe te punojne ne te zeze,me pagesa nen tavoline,cash dhe te mos paguajne taksa fare
    per punet qe bejne.
    Nje pjese jane shume injorante dhe nuk e thithin fare gjermanishten si gjuhe,pasi jane te trashe
    jane te pa afte te mesojne gjermanishten.
    Nje pjese kane hyre shume vone ne gjermani ne moshe madhore dhe skane vullnet as nxitje qe ti futen
    dhe mesojne gjermanishten.Mjaftohen me ndonje pune krahu dhe dijne vetem 20 fjale.
    Por ajo qe i shqeteson gjermanet eshte fakti qe turqit kane krijuar lagje, komunitetet e tyre ne Gjermani,
    lagje te medha ku banojne vetem turq dhe per pasoje turqit perderisa jetojne gjithe kohen aty,nuk jane as te interesuar as duan fare te
    mesojne gjermanishten.Kjo I shqeteson gjermanet per sigurine dhe luften ndaj terrorizmit,
    pasi gjermanet nuk kane akses ner lagjet turke dhe nuk shoqerohen
    me turq,kulturat shume larg njera tjetres.Kane veshtirsi per te marre informacion nga lagjet turke se cbehet.
    ≈♥♠♣♦≈ovguide.com/movies

  4. #4
    i/e regjistruar
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    Pėr: Helmut Kohl deshte gjysmat e turqve jashte Gjermanise

    Njeri i madh, respekte Helmut Kol.

  5. #5
    Love all, but trust a few Maska e angmokio
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    Pėr: Helmut Kohl deshte gjysmat e turqve jashte Gjermanise

    Citim Postuar mė parė nga benseven11 Lexo Postimin
    Ironik eshte fakti qe megjithse Kohli nuk i pelqen turqit,cuni i tij Piter,martohet me nje
    bankiere turke.
    Dhe hajde mos thuaj qe Allahu eshte i madh
    "And speak kindly to mankind '' Quran - 2:83"

  6. #6
    Veritas liberatis Vos
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    Pėr: Helmut Kohl deshte gjysmat e turqve jashte Gjermanise

    Shume i madh eshte, myslot urrejne me shume njeri tjetrin se sa te tjeret.........


    per kete rast shkon thenia: " C'te ben femija , nuk ta ben as Perendia"
    Shqiperia ka rreshtur se ekzistuari qe kur jevgjit i thane vetes "shqiptar".
    xfiles

  7. #7
    Prof. Dr. Kristal fare!
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    18-09-2012
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    Pėr: Helmut Kohl deshte gjysmat e turqve jashte Gjermanise

    Citim Postuar mė parė nga Korcar-L1 Lexo Postimin
    Shume i madh eshte, myslot urrejne me shume njeri tjetrin se sa te tjeret.........


    per kete rast shkon thenia: " C'te ben femija , nuk ta ben as Perendia"
    Z. Kohl nuk ka kontakte me djalin e tij Peter Kohl pasi te dy nuk ndajne mendime te njejta per nje sere gjerash (si psh. madhesine e ... Allahut!!). Peter Kohl u njoh me gruan e tij turke gjate studimeve ne Angli dhe duhet thene se e shoqja e tij (Elif Sözen) turke vjen nga nje familje multimiliarderesh turq qe jane po aq myslymane te devotshem sa eshte edhe Silvioja ne Itali katolik!! Gjithsesi ceremonine e dasmes (ne 2001) ata e bene ne kishen katolike te Shna Ndout te Padoves qe ndodhet ne pjesen europiane te Stambollit me emrin Beyoglu!
    Ndryshuar pėr herė tė fundit nga Cen Durimmadhi : 03-08-2013 mė 08:20
    Allahu ekberr hiqni preket se u err!

  8. #8
    i/e regjistruar Maska e Antiproanti
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    Pėr: Helmut Kohl deshte gjysmat e turqve jashte Gjermanise

    Citim Postuar mė parė nga benseven11 Lexo Postimin
    1.5 million turq ne Gjermani qe prej vitit 1982.Po sot sa jane?Mbase diku 5 miljon turq.
    ...
    2,5-3 milion.
    Turqe, kurde, shqipetare, boshnjake, arabe, rome, greke, armene... te Turqise

    Nje pjese e turqve nuk duan te integrohen,nuk duan as pashaporta,qellimisht qe te punojne ne te zeze,me pagesa nen tavoline,cash dhe te mos paguajne taksa fare per punet qe bejne.


    Po te ishte dicka e tille e mundshme edhe shume gjerman do hiqnin dore nga pashaporta gjermane...
    Pagesa e taksave s'ka asnje lidhje me nenshtetesine e punemarresit.
    Puna ne te zeze gjithashtu nuk ka asnje lidhje me pashaporten apo nenshtetesine. Denimet jane absolutisht te njeta, si per ate qe ka pashaporte gjernmane si per tukun qe "refuzon qellimisht" kete pashaporte te tille.


    Perndryshe, rreth 15% nuk jane musliman apo pjesetare te ndonje sekti musliman, rreth 12% jane alevite (musliman pjeserisht shume liberal -kundershtaret kryesor te Erdoganit dhe islamisteve) dhe nder keto rreth 3 milion njerez nga Turqia llogariten edhe te tille qe kane vetem nenen apo babain me prejardhje nga Turqia etj...
    Ndryshuar pėr herė tė fundit nga Antiproanti : 03-08-2013 mė 09:36

  9. #9
    i/e regjistruar Maska e Antiproanti
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    Pėr: Helmut Kohl deshte gjysmat e turqve jashte Gjermanise

    Der Spiegel

    Helmut Kohl mbron deklaratat e tij per tuqit

    Ish-Kancelari Kohl qendron prapa deklaratave tashme te njohura te tij per politiken ndaj te huajve ne vitin 1982. Plani per pergjysmimin e turqve ne Gjermani, ne ate kohe kishte qene pjese e nje debati te gjere, thote zyra e tij.


    ...
    Qasja e Kohlit e vitit 1982 ne politiken e mevoshme te tij gjithesesi nuk ndiqet me: ne vitin 1993 ishte ai qe kunder rezistences brendapartiake vedosi qe gjenerates se trete te te hujave te lindur ne Gjermani tju takonte pashaporta gjermane dhe me kete tju lehtesohej intergrimi. Emigrantet kontribuan "ne mase te konsiderueshme ne mireqesnjen e gjermaneve", deklaronte Kohl.

    ...
    Ne vitin 1982 jetonin rreth 1,5 milion turq ne Gjermani. Republika Federale Gjermane kishte probleme te medha: pas krizes se dyte te naftes ne fillim te viteve tetedhjete ekonomia ishte dobesuar ne mase te konsiderueshme. 1,8 milion njerez ishin te papune, gjashte here me shume se ne vitin 1973.
    Ndryshuar pėr herė tė fundit nga Antiproanti : 03-08-2013 mė 10:05

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