Fethullah Gülen, islamiku me i rrezikshem i planetit

[Hyllien]

Ai nuk duket të jetë një problem vdekjeprurës për Shtetet e Bashkuara dhe Evropës.

Wikipedia

Secularism
Gülen’s Islamic teaching and practice was developed in the forge of Turkey’s 20th century project to create a secular state, as initiated by the Turkish nationalist revolution of Atatürk. That project became an ideologically “secularist” one, locked in symbiotic conflict with an “Islamist” reaction. Arising from that context, Gülen has criticized a politics rooted in a philosophically reductionist materialism. But he has also argued that Islam and democracy are compatible and he encourages greater democracy within Turkey. He also argues that a secular approach that is not anti-religious and allows for freedom of religion and belief is compatible with Islam.

Turkey bid to join the EU
Gulen favors Turkey's bid to join the European Union and argues that neither Turkey nor the EU have anything to fear, but have much to gain, from a future of full Turkish membership in the EU.

Women's roles
According to Aras and Caha, Gülen's views on women are "progressive" but "modern professional women in Turkey still find his ideas far from acceptable." [4] Gülen says the coming of Islam saved women, who "were absolutely not confined to their home and...never oppressed" in the early years of the religion. He feels that western-style feminism, however, is "doomed to imbalance like all other reactionary movements...being full of hatred towards men."

Terrorism
Gülen condemns any kind of terrorism.[34] He warns against the phenomenon of arbitrary violence and aggression against civilians, that is terrorism, which has no place in Islam and which militates against its very foundational tenets of reverence for human life and for all of God's creation. In an article that he wrote for the Turkish Daily News a few days after the horrific events of September 11, 2001 titled "Real Muslims Cannot Be Terrorists," [35] Gülen lamented the deplorable hijacking of Islam by terrorists who claimed to be Muslims and acting out of religious conviction. He counseled that "One should seek Islam through its own sources and in its own representatives throughout history; not through the actions of a tiny minority that misrepresent it
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Sekularizmi
Mësimeve islamike Gylenit dhe praktikë është zhvilluar në arritjen e projektit të shekullit të 20-të Turqisë për të krijuar një shtet laik, pasi nisur nga revolucioni turk nacionaliste e Ataturkut. Ky projekt u bë një ideologjikisht "laike", një, i mbyllur në konflikt symbiotic me një reaksion "islamik". Që dalin nga këtë kontekst, Gylen ka kritikuar një politikë rrënjosur në një materializmi filozofik reduksioniste. Por ai ka argumentuar gjithashtu se Islami dhe demokracia janë të pajtueshme dhe ai inkurajon demokracinë më të madhe në Turqi. Ai gjithashtu argumenton se një qasje laik që nuk është anti-fetare dhe lejon lirinë e fesë dhe besimit është në përputhje me Islamin.

ofertën e Turqisë për t'u bashkuar me BE
Gyleni favorizon ofertën e Turqisë për t'u bashkuar me Bashkimin Evropian dhe argumenton se as Turqia e as BE-së kanë ndonjë gjë për frikë, por kanë shumë për të fituar, nga një të ardhme e anëtarësimit të plotë të Turqisë në BE.

Rolet e grave
Sipas Aras dhe Caha, pikëpamjet e Gylenit mbi gratë janë "progresiv", por "femrat moderne profesionale në Turqi të gjeni idetë e tij larg e pranueshme." [4] Gyleni thotë se ardhja e Islamit shpëtuar gratë, të cilët "nuk janë absolutisht të mbyllur në shtëpinë e tyre dhe ... nuk shtypur" në vitet e para të fesë. Ai e ndjen se të stilit perëndimor feminizmit, megjithatë, është "i dënuar të pabarazisë si të gjitha lëvizjet e tjera reaksionare ... duke qenë plot me urrejtje ndaj njerëzve."

Terrorizmi
Gyleni dënon çdo lloj terrorizmi. [34] Ai paralajmëron kundër fenomenit të dhunës arbitrare dhe agresionit kundër civilëve, që është terrorizmi, i cili nuk ka vend në Islam dhe e cila militon kundër parimet e saj shumë themelore të nderimit për jetën e njeriut dhe për të gjithë krijimit të Zotit. Në një artikull që ai shkroi për Turkish Daily News disa ditë pas ngjarjeve të tmerrshme të 11 shtator 2001 me titull "Muslimanët e vërtetë nuk mund të jetë terroristë," [35] Gylen ankohej për të ardhur keq rrëmbimin e Islamit nga terroristët të cilët pretendohet të jenë muslimanë dhe vepron nga bindja fetare. Ai këshilloi se "Njeriu duhet të kërkojë Islamin përmes burimeve të veta dhe në përfaqësuesit e vet gjatë gjithë historisë, jo përmes veprimeve të një minoriteti të vogël që të paraqes

Freebyrd, is a bit more complicated from what you portray:

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Turkey's religious Gülen community subject of latest WikiLeaks
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Thursday, March 17, 2011
ISTANBUL - Hürriyet Daily News


Fethullah Gülen went to the United States on a tourist visa and applied in 1999 for a permanent resident card, which he was granted in 2008. Hürriyet photo
The perspective of the United States on religious leader Fethullah Gülen and his international community has evolved over the years amid lobbying efforts by the group to change its image, the latest leaked diplomatic cables have suggested.

Though U.S. officials perceived the community as adhering to a “moderate Islam” model, they expressed concerns in the cables, the first documents released by WikiLeaks’ new Turkish partner, about its perceived infiltration into the Turkish police and accusations of “brainwashing of students” at the community’s schools around the world.

The confidential cables released by daily Taraf focus on U.S. diplomats investigating and analyzing the religious community and its actions, Gülen’s meeting with the pope in 1998 and his stay in the United States, according to reports in the Turkish media Thursday.

The newspaper was set to release the original cables on its website late Thursday as the Hürriyet Daily News & Economic Review went to press.

Gülen went to the United States on a tourist visa and applied in 1999 for a permanent resident card, or “green card,” which was denied. His lawyers took the matter to court and won the case, granting Gülen his card in 2008. A 2009 cable by former U.S. Ankara Ambassador James Jeffrey mentions that although Gülen’s status in the United States is provided by a court decision, some circles that dislike him incorrectly believe it to be the result of the U.S. government’s politics regarding Turkey.

A secret cable by Stuart Smith, U.S. deputy chief consul for Istanbul, mentions he was told by Chief Rabbi Ishak Haleva that a recommendation letter was demanded from the rabbi for Gülen by some people. Haleva told him the letter was to change the image “among some units of the U.S. government” that Gülen is “a radical Islamist who hides a secret and sinister agenda with his moderate message.” These people were mentioned by daily Taraf as members of the Turkey Journalists and Writers Association.

Haleva was hesitant to write such a letter, or even a more limited one just to describe Gülen’s relations with the Jewish community. It is also mentioned that the Armenian patriarch received a similar demand and was likewise hesitant. However, the Vatican representative in Istanbul fully supported Gülen, according to the same cable. (????Interesting)

The FBI was also asked for a document of “clear status” for Gülen but did not give it because it might be used for a public-relations campaign, according to a cable featured by Taraf. One 2005 cable said the Gülen community seems to be a “moderate Islam” model that keeps its distance from violence and terrorism and is not anti-Semitic. However, it is also mentioned that since the Gülen community is running a global mission of Islamism, it remains to be seen whether it will remain positive or not. The “brainwashing of students” was mentioned during an evaluation of the community’s schools around the world.

The perception of Gülen changed, however, after U.S. diplomats looked further into the community and spoke to more people about its organization in Turkey, according to Taraf’s coverage. Later reports said Gülen is not a Khomeini who wants to transform Turkey into another Iran. The problem of the Gülen community is not with secularism itself but Turkey’s version of it, which wants to “control everything,” the cables state. “The Gülen community members do not want to bring down the secular order in Turkey dramatically, they are after a change from within,” one said.(Note: what is this change from within ? Bring down the Turkish constitution ? I've heard this line before too somewhere. Not sure if you can refresh my memory.)

The 2009 cable by Jeffery describes Gülen as a “political phenomena” in Turkey even he is “in exile” in Pennsylvania. It was also said the Gülen community is strong within the police force and in conflict with the military, which sees the group as an enemy.

“It is not possible to confirm the Turkish police are under the control of the Gülen community members, but we have not met anybody who denies it,” one cable said. The Gülen-controlled media is supporting the investigation into the alleged Ergenekon coup plot and has resulted in many opponents of the ruling Justice and Development Party, or AKP, ending up behind bars, the cable stated.

Gülen met John Paul II in the Vatican in February 1998 upon an invitation from the pope. Taraf’s story said the two people who helped arrange the meeting were Üzeyir Garih, a Turkish businessman of Jewish origin, and Georges Marovitch, spokesman for the Clerics Board of Turkey Catholic Communities, both known as close friends of Gülen. Garih was stabbed to death in Istanbul’s Eyüp Cemetery in 2001 while Marovitch survived a murder attempt in Rome in 2007, when an unidentified assailant pushed him onto a train track. Both incidents left many questions unanswered, the Taraf story said. (Note: more questions raised)

Cable says Turkish PM perceived as ‘liability’ by Gülen movement.

Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdoğan is a “liability,” members of the Fethullah Gülen community have said, according to a U.S. embassy cable recently released by WikiLeaks’ Turkish partner, daily Taraf.

According to the cable, President Abdullah Gül is perceived to be a member of the religious community “by almost everybody,” but Erdoğan is not. Many told U.S. diplomatic officials that Erdoğan had placed himself outside of the “Gülen front” in such a way that he is perceived as a “liability.”

People are hesitant to reveal their actual opinions because they are afraid what they say could hurt them later, according to the cable.(Note: and here I thought we live in a democracy. No one is saying anything about this guy.)

The cable also said the main opposition Republican People’s Party, or CHP, and other parties that oppose the ruling Justice and Development Party, or AKP, were quick to accuse the United States of secretly supporting the Gülen movement so as to “weaken the secular foundations of Turkey in order to create a moderate Islamic State ‘model.’”

FROM: http://www.hurriyetdailynews.com/n.p...ity-2011-03-17 - biggest Turkish Newspaper in the English world.

[Hyllien]

Now Freebyrd, since you got yourself involved in this discussion, there's a very nice article you might want to translate from here: http://www.forumishqiptar.com/showthread.php?t=137862

Is USA supporting Turkish involvement in the Balkan Peninsula once again after 500 years of proved oppression ? In Albania the theory is actually gaining some momentum it appears from various articles and from a rather mute diplomacy from US in regards to the recent, very frequent visits of Turkey in Bosnia and Kosovo, forcing the latter to sign treaties regarding the change of historical truth, where Turks are now to appear as moderate conquerors at the very least. Not that Europe, Western Europe has been much friendly to Albania, but since you got involved again, what are your remarks concerning the articles that are gaining momentum currently in Albania(for me they are troubling to say the least). These are happening not coincidentally in a turbulent political period, where Albania can certainly use the help of USA in coordinating with it's own elite(no cost to US taxpayers) schooled abroad in reverting back some of that "brain drain" we experienced in the past 20 years and getting Albania out of this gridlock and forced flirt(a second rape one might say) with the east once again. Something that US was initially very concerned about.

[javan]

Thank you for the above article Free-Byrd. In your opinion, is USA backing up a secular or religious state of Turkey? What side is Erdogan in? Gul?

[FreeByrd]

Now Freebyrd, since you got yourself involved in this discussion, there's a very nice article you might want to translate from here: http://www.forumishqiptar.com/showthread.php?t=137862

Is USA supporting Turkish involvement in the Balkan Peninsula once again after 500 years of proved oppression ? In Albania the theory is actually gaining some momentum it appears from various articles and from a rather mute diplomacy from US in regards to the recent, very frequent visits of Turkey in Bosnia and Kosovo, forcing the latter to sign treaties regarding the change of historical truth, where Turks are now to appear as moderate conquerors at the very least. Not that Europe, Western Europe has been much friendly to Albania, but since you got involved again, what are your remarks concerning the articles that are gaining momentum currently in Albania(for me they are troubling to say the least). These are happening not coincidentally in a turbulent political period, where Albania can certainly use the help of USA in coordinating with it's own elite(no cost to US taxpayers) schooled abroad in reverting back some of that "brain drain" we experienced in the past 20 years and getting Albania out of this gridlock and forced flirt(a second rape one might say) with the east once again. Something that US was initially very concerned about.

Until I read this thread I had not even heard of Gullen. After reading the Wikipedia article about this leader it did appear (APPEAR) he was a farsighted moderate religious figure. Obviously after reading your retort the subject of Mr. Gullen is a hell of lot more complicated than meets the eye.

As far as the United States involvement with present Turk government there is little or no information our news media is reporting to the public. Personally I don't want the descendents of Murad II and the Ottoman Turks to have any control over the lives of the descendents of Gjergj Kastrioti for any reason or political gains for the United States.

By all means give me more information about Gullen and the Turkish move in the Balkans.

PS
That's the conundrum of the best and brightest from countries all over the world going to the US to further their higher education. They live the "good life" or should i say the SO CALLED '"good life" and don't want to leave the Hollywood glitter.
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Deri sa kam lexuar këtë temë unë nuk e kishte dëgjuar edhe Gullen. Pas leximit të nenit Wikipedia në lidhje me këtë udhëheqës bëri duket (DUKET) ai ishte një figurë të moderuar largpamëse fetare. Natyrisht pas leximit përgënjeshtroj tuaj subjekt i z. Gullen është një ferr i shumë më e komplikuar se i plotëson sy.

Sa i përket përfshirjes Shtetet e Bashkuara me qeverinë aktuale Turk ka pak ose aspak informacion mediat tona lajmet e raportimit për publikun. Personalisht unë nuk dua pasardhësit e Murati II dhe turqit otomanë të ketë ndonjë kontroll mbi jetën e pasardhësit e Gjergj Kastriotit për ndonjë arsye apo përfitime politike për Shtetet e Bashkuara.

Me të gjitha mjetet më jepni më shumë informacion rreth Gullen dhe lëvizje turke në Ballkan.

PS
Kjo është rebus më të mirë dhe të zgjuarit nga vendet e gjithë bota do të SHBA për më tej arsimimin e tyre të lartë. Ata jetojnë "jetë të mirë", ose duhet të them të ashtuquajturat "jetë të mirë" dhe nuk duan të largohen nga vezullim Hollywood.

[Kandy*]

Gyleni nuk ka lidhje me politiken amerikane, mos ia fusni kot.
As nuk ka lidhje me muslimanizem modern, eshte nje intelektual si shume intelektuale te tjere muslimane, vetem se metoden e futjes ne shoqeri e ka te vecante.
Eshte paksa makiavelist (por jo ne kuptim te plote te fjales) qe perpiqet te hyje ne shoqeri permes laicizmit, derisa t'ua mbjell faren e besimit ne zemra.

[FreeByrd]

Thank you for the above article Free-Byrd. In your opinion, is USA backing up a secular or religious state of Turkey? What side is Erdogan in? Gul?

The United States government and the vast majority of the people of the United States always support separation of church and state. Therefore we lean toward a secular government for the people of Turkey.
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Qeveria e Shteteve të Bashkuara dhe shumica e popullit të Shteteve të Bashkuara gjithmonë mbështetjen e ndarjes së kishës nga shteti. Prandaj ne varfër drejt një qeveri laike për popullin e Turqisë.

[Hyllien]

Gyleni nuk ka lidhje me politiken amerikane, mos ia fusni kot.
As nuk ka lidhje me muslimanizem modern, eshte nje intelektual si shume intelektuale te tjere muslimane, vetem se metoden e futjes ne shoqeri e ka te vecante.
Eshte paksa makiavelist (por jo ne kuptim te plote te fjales) qe perpiqet te hyje ne shoqeri permes laicizmit, derisa t'ua mbjell faren e besimit ne zemra.

Na shpjego pak oj trime si e paska këtë metodë, sepse ti e njifke më afër se nga cfarë e njof unë.

[Hyllien]

Until I read this thread I had not even heard of Gullen. After reading the Wikipedia article about this leader it did appear (APPEAR) he was a farsighted moderate religious figure. Obviously after reading your retort the subject of Mr. Gullen is a hell of lot more complicated than meets the eye.

Hello FreeByrd. I would not rely on wikipedia for anything politically related. I'd rather search the old archives of Foreign Affairs, CFR and other institutions in the case of US(not of US normal media outlets, those have no clue what goes on in the world and are becoming more entrenched in local politics), and compare those stories with BBC archives, other European news outlets archives and then with the Turkish newspapers abroad, and those in Turkey and try to reconcile the four views, US, EU and Turkey in this case diaspora version, and Turkey local version.

As far as the United States involvement with present Turk government there is little or no information our news media is reporting to the public. Personally I don't want the descendents of Murad II and the Ottoman Turks to have any control over the lives of the descendents of Gjergj Kastrioti for any reason or political gains for the United States.

By all means give me more information about Gullen and the Turkish move in the Balkans.

PS
That's the conundrum of the best and brightest from countries all over the world going to the US to further their higher education. They live the "good life" or should i say the SO CALLED '"good life" and don't want to leave the Hollywood glitter.

If there's a certainty among Albanians, 95% of them at least, not the loud minority who tries to sway opinion or is paid handsome money to keep Albania from emancipating politically and economically, is that US was, is, and will be our greatest ally. It's a natural ally, we do aspire the same vision and things US does, there's no question about it. In Europe these aspirations are hard to find not only in politics but also among common people. But politics sometimes takes a while to be implemented and takes setbacks that could have been/could be avoided. US did support for a very brief time Enver Hoxha against the Nazis, and when he came to power it took them 50 years to get rid of him. Among the various traitors in the intelligence community, Philby par excellance, the Royalty politics of Europe who is connected via various cables with all Balkan Royals except Albania, the pressure of Communist Russia etc brought about the death of hundreds of Albanians who were sent by US to topple this regime. And we had to wait until the most ruthless dictator in Europe who single handily destroyed pretty much all that was left of the Albanian tradition died of natural causes. It took US almost 100 years to fix England's mistakes at the London Conference while in the mean time hundreds of thousands were displaced and died in Yugoslavia and especially Kosovo. Again after the liberation of Kosovo by US alone, the French intervened and put their own puppet in power, or Europe's puppet, who today is the Prime Minister of Kosovo and possibly Islamist associating himself with the hardliners of Turkey.

So I'm not sure what US is trying to do here. Certainly the offensive of the Turks, the resignation of various generals is very troublesome, coming a few footsteps before the celebrations for the centenary of the independence of Albania from the said Turks. But politics can be complicated. We found out through wikileaks that Ambassador Whithers for example was far more knowledgeable of the filth and corruption that is eating Albania, and you can imagine Kosovo. But he was saying one thing to the media and something else, the true picture to the cables with the Department of State.

Turkey is an important player in Balkan politics, and if they are allowed to choose between moderate Islam(Gul & Co) vs radical Islam(the ones that are in power like Erdogan, Davoutoglu etc are the worst kind) where does the separation of Church and State go ? How can Mr. Davoutoglu, the primier of Turkey be allowed to say, in the place where the "League of Prizren" took place that "Prizren is the Jeruzalem of Turkey and Turkish people". The same was said by Boris Tadic. These are very troublesome remarks that spark talks about a holy war in the Balkans, and once again we Albanians will be the ones to pay the dear price of this insanity.

As far as the glitters of Hollywood I'm not sure what you're trying to say or imply. The Albanian elite doesn't want to leave as they're living the "good life"? Certainly, the US if it wants, it has shown that will use all resources available to change the course of politics, and this time spare us another 500 years of setbacks possibly. Operation Gladio among others, teaches us that. I cannot believe that all of them are amazed by the glitters of Hollywood. We have been forced to leave the fatherland for hundrets of years. The Albanians in Greece(Arvanites), Italy(Arberesh), Ukraine, Croatia, Zwitzerland, France, US etc have been living there for centuries in some of these places. So Hollywood glitters don't necessarily attract us, and we're used to this unprecedented mobility. We know what immigration is like. The question is that passive diplomacy in the Balkans does not work, sooner or later it brings back various monsters, perhaps this time it will take a significantly longer time but it does. All it takes is for US to hit another roadblock in the world, another war, another economic crisis and the oligarchs of Russia will try to reinvent themselves into influencing European politics once again. Now they do control all the energy resources for example.

The real question is at this time, how much is US committed given all its millions issues at home and with three wars, to change the course of politics in the Balkans and possibly upset what is now becoming an Islamic Turkey, but nonetheless US political ally.

In conclusion, we have a saying in Albania "better to be shit, than small". We need support to resist the pressures of Greeks,Serbs,Turks,Russians, Romanians and Italians and especially given the corrupt politics we have in power.

PS: And this story of Ambassador John Withers II, has some very very very important and troublesome implications. I'll leave them to your judgement what these are.

[Hyllien]

And let's not forget the Turkish-Israel incident a while back with the supplies for Palestinian Rebels and People. This demonstrates that Turkey is assuming an attitude of an "empire", a revival one might say. This arrogance is unprecedented. If they can do it against Israel, then we Albanians are completely at the mercy of fate, as Israel is at the mercy of US and they even can't seem to stop this insanity. With the drop of geopolitical weight of Greece in the region, due to its Economic collapse(the spread of bond yields and cds contracts for those sovereign bonds are now at comic levels, yields are at 48% !!!!!! practically Greece is insolvent) and given the same problems of Italy, Turkey is assuming a different attitude. Certainly I'm worried about Greece, as the balance of power is shifting in the southeastern Europe and Albania has a combined 1 million + workers in Italy and Greece. Where will they go ? Some are coming in US, the rest is going back at corrupt Albania that can't support them. Who will ? Turkey? With what? Mosques and radicalization ?

UPDATE: Nevermind, this is getting even more complicated. The arrogance of Turkey and desire to reinvent itself as NeoOttoman Empire knows no bounds. Perhaps its time to analyze what happened in Armenia and what they are doing with the Kurds.
http://www.haaretz.com/news/diplomac...hague-1.382330

[Uriel]

Është shndërruar në tendencë së fundmi replikat në gjuhë të huaj: por dua t'iu kujtoj, se gjuha e vetme e lejuar në forum është gjuha shqipe, përpos disa hapësirave të caktuara për krijimtaritë letrare. FreeByrd si një amerikan ka treguar se kupton mjaft mirë shkrimet në shqip, duke krijuar një ide të përgjithshme me google translate, ndaj nuk është e nevojshme përdorimi i një gjuhe të huaj në bashkëbisedimet me të. Në forum mund të regjistrohen dhe anëtarë të kombësive të tjera, të cilët mund të gjejnë një zgjidhje praktike për pjesëmarrjen si FreeByrd, por kjo nuk do të thotë që forumi të kthehet në OKB. Në kuadër të rregullores, replikat që si përkasin gjuhës shqipe do të shlyen në vijim - që mundi mos i'u shkojë dëm, respektoni rregulloren.

Ju falenderoj paraprakisht!