AZEM HAJDARI INTERVIEW
These extracts are taken from an interview conducted by the British Helsinki Human Rights Group (BHHRG) with Azem Haidari, Democratic Party MP in Albania, and leader of the student movement which in 1990 overthrew the last communist government in Albania (led by ex-Socialist Prime Minister Fatos Nano) and paved the way for the first democratically elected government in Albania after 50 years of communist dictatorship.
The interview took place in January 1998 in Tirana at Democratic Party headquarters - where he was shot dead on 12th September 1998.
AZEM HAJDARI:
"Every day it astonishes me to see some Westerners supporting a government which represents 50 years of crime in Albania. I see in front of my eyes that history is going to be rewritten and manipulated. Because of Western support we are unable to stop this manipulation. I want to say one thing: If the opposition were to flee the country because of the shootings in the parliament, what would happen to democracy in this country? We are determined to sacrifice everything to protect democracy and this is why we are here. We are shot at with bullets and the people who fired those bullets at us appear on TV with some Westerners. What can a simple man, an ordinary man, think?
BHHRG What does a simple man think? What do you think?
HAJDARI: I think that West must stop applying double standards, one for itself and another for everyone else – this really concerns me. I would be very pleased if the West applied the same standards everywhere.
BHHRG: What sort of double standards?
HAJDARI: Let us take an example: elections. No one would accept electoral malpractice in Italian or British elections. But here an MP can be shot in parliament. Hundreds of prisoners were released from jail in Greece including former Sigurimi agents who are coming back into power. A condemned thief is Prime Minister and people from the West come with their delegations to meet him! How can you have dealings with a thief? I was the leader of the students in 1990 when I fought to topple Fatos Nano. Now we are in 1998, and I am fighting Fatos Nano again. So, we are back where we began. But the fact is that now people are armed. They all have arms. This is how events have turned out . I am sure that that is not a change wanted by the Albanian people. It is the result of aggression towards Albania.
BHHRG: You talk about the elections last year. The OSCE said that the results were acceptable. Is it perhaps that they think that things will never be perfect here. So it is better to accept a peaceful solution and therefore accept the elections?
HAJDARI: They were wrong to accept these elections because an armed insurrection brought these people to power. Society has now been criminalized and we have in power a criminal Mafia. The difference is that the criminals are not driving about in their own private cars but in the cars of the government. So the question is what is going to happen to this country? Is it going to be a democracy governed by elected representatives or a place ruled by smugglers. This government engages in contraband and instigates organised crime. It controls illegal immigration to Europe, including Kurds. It kills the opposition. In my opinion the OSCE should accept a technical government that includes all political parties, and that government should tackle only two issues: disarmament of the people and transparency on the pyramid investment schemes, and thus create the conditions for free and fair elections. All other formulas are unrealistic and I'm sure they will fail.
BHHRG: Have you said this to the OSCE? Have you told them what you think?
HAJDARI: The other senior officials of the D.P. hold the meetings. I have recently been in the U.S. and I have expressed my views. What is important is that we are not going to give up fighting for democratic ideals in this country. The question is what the others (the government) want: stability or democracy? In my opinion we must have stability through democracy in this country. The others have the concept of stability through dictatorship. But we had that kind of stability for 50 years. And it will not work now. We cannot have stability now without free elections. I invite representatives of the OSCE or the other institutions to come with me and talk to the people in my district. People everywhere here want an efficient but an elected government.
BHHRG: Should the Democratic Party return to parliament?
AZEM HAJDARI: This is the main issue we are discussing right now. The Democratic Party is a party of principle. I do not think the main reason we left was the attack on me*. The problem is the efforts of the Socialists in the parliament to use us as the façade of democracy. Many of our friends have suggested we should return to the parliament and many of our opponents have used our absence against us. And now we have before us a suggestion, a package from the Troika (3 members of the EU parliament visiting Albania) which we welcome. In my opinion this parliament is not legitimate. It is the worst parliament that, historically speaking, I have known. Nevertheless we must use it.
* Azem Hajdari was shot six times inside the parliament building in September 1997. The main opposition Democratic Party withdrew from parliament shortly afterwards and boycotted proceedings for the following 6 months.
BHHRG: Is it worse than the Communist-era parliaments?
HAJDARI: That is an interesting question. It is the same thing. I am talking about the way the parliament was set up in 1946 when the communists came to power after the war, and, again, when they came to power after the revolution in 1997. International organizations consider this parliament to be "acceptable", but this is meaningless. Legally speaking, one talks about free and legitimate elections not ‘acceptable ‘or ‘not acceptable’. What the Socialists have done is widely understood here and I am convinced that very soon we will have fresh elections. There has been a great change in the electorate between June 29 1997 and now.
BHHRG: I have been in Vlore recently and there are many accusations flying around about the elections. One has to do with Lushnia, and a man they call "Loshe". He is dead now. But a relative of his claims that the Democrats paid him to fix the elections.
HAJDARI: First of all the Democratic Party didn’t have any money to pay him. Secondly, I don't have any personal contacts with Lushnia district. Thirdly, I don't know this man. Who is he?
BHHRG: He claims, or rather his relative claims, that when he didn't get his money after the election he came here to Tirana and he got $60,000 from Mr Azem Hajdari.
HAIDARE: I have never had $60,000 in my life. Secondly, the Communists never give up on manipulation. The fact is that the DP did not have any candidates in 30 districts in the South. To see people from Vlore- where electoral manipulation was at its worst – accusing Lushnia of electoral manipulation, is ironic. And why me in Lushnia? It would have to be in Tirana where I played some part in affairs.
BHHRG: you were saying about the international community...
HAJDARI: The observers who took part in the election on June 29, have been accused of having photographs of themselves taken with people like Zani Taushi (a leading criminal) The international community has accepted as Prime Minister a thief like Fatos Nano. As the person who led the anti-Communist movement in Albania in 1990 this is a very great disappointment. I have been elected 4 times as an MP, so my popularity among the people is growing, not diminishing. My conclusion about what happened in 1997 is that the riots were provoked by the Communists in collaboration with the Mafia and nationalist circles outside Albania. However, the Democratic Party is alive and strong enough and I am alive _ to the misfortune of the Communists.
BHHRG: So you are willing to go back into the parliament even after the shooting?
HAJDARI: This incident is not important. I chose my way in my life and I want to protect democracy in this country. I will explore all the possibilities mainly by meeting the people, but also by speaking in parliament. I will go there to say that this parliament is not legitimate and that the government should resign. I shall confront MPs in order to protect my ideals and the democratic ideals of my party. What has happened, happened, I am alive.
BHHRG: But you will let it run its full 4 years?
HAJDARI: In my opinion this government should not run the country even for a month. We will fight to try to make it resign as soon as possible. And now the electorate, the people demand from us a solution.
BHHRG But how can you achieve this without another war?
HAJDARI: Through elections - people are asking daily for fresh elections. We will fill the squares of the cities with people. In the 6 months we have been having our protests, not a single glass has been broken. And if the hunger strikes end in tragedy [judges and ex-political prisoners went on hunger strike in January 1998 protesting proposed changes to the judiciary in Albania and the abolition of the genocide law] I will give up my parliamentary immunity . And I will address the people telling them that I cannot accept this government any longer. A similar declaration has been made by Mr. Abnori, the former speaker of the parliament, who is considered to be the father of Albanian democracy.
BHHRG: When you say you are determined, what are you going to do about that. How are you going to make a better job outside parliament than inside it-if you are not going to take up weapons?
HAJDARI: If a hunger striker dies, every thing will change in this country. This government will show that it lacks even the elementary human values and things will change - for the worse.
BHHRG: You mean there will be a revolution here?
HAJDARI: It is not a question of a revolution, but of a huge popular movement. I don't support any kind of movement which is contrary to the principles of democracy. If I had taken that path I would have done it in 1997 and the Communists would not be in power today. So I support democratic methods, but the movement is going to be more active, more powerful. Yesterday I was in a city in the North of the country and I had a meeting with around 4000 people. I have had several meetings-not only me but the DP- and we are seeing an increase of interest among the people every day. And this is a big guarantee for us that the people are moving towards Democracy.
BHHRG: But if you say you won’t wait until the next elections, how are you going to force elections. The government won’t allow fresh elections until the end of their mandate will they?
HAJDARI: The squares of the cities will be filled with the people, so they won't have any alternative. There will be strikes, demonstrations- in democracy there are several ways to achieve your goals through peaceful means, through strikes and demonstrations. They might kill some of us but the others will continue the struggle. To me it is better being dead than living under Dictatorship. It is not a question of power. It is a question of Democracy. We are not talking about power. We are talking about Democratic rule.
Postscript
After the close of the formal interview, Mr Hajdari commented on the re-reappointment of officers in the Albanian Army following the 1997 elections:
BHHRG: They say that 10 out 25 NATO trained officers have been sacked, is that true?
HAJDARI: Yes, they were sacked and replaced by officers who were dismissed by the Democratic government and worked as emigrants outside the country. This is against Albanian law.
BHHRG: Who are they - the officers taking over?
HAJDARI: They are much worse than just communists. They have been commissars (ideological police in the former Albanian communist army) After they were sacked they worked as (illegal) immigrants in Greece, Italy as well as other countries. When they returned they ran the operations of the rebels in the South (in 1997).
First published: 5 October 1998
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