Haplogrupet ballkanike ("E3b-M78", "J2b" dhe "I1b")

[GL_Branch]

Kete teme e hapa qe te flasim lidhje me keto 3 haplogrupe sepse pothajse cdo muaj po ka risi te reja lidhje me to dhe gjithashtu eshte krijuar dhe studim baze nga antropologet.

Sic dihet 6 haplogrupe njihen si evropian qe jane:

- R1a
- R1b
- I1a

dhe 3 te fundit njihen ndryshe haplogrupe ballkanik sepse epiqendra eshte ne ballkan:

- "E3b-M78" apo (E3b1a, E-V13)-----Epiqendra eshte tek shqiptaret
- "J2b" apo (J2e-M102)------Nga studimet e ndryshme epiqendren kane nxjerr her Italianet, Greket apo Shqiptaret.
- "I1b" (apo I2a)-----Epiqendra eshte kryesisht tek Boshnjaket, Kroatet dhe Moldavet.

Por problemi eshte se disa studiues E3b-M78 her etikojne qe kane ardhur nga koha neolitike bashke me J2b ne ballkan kurse te tjeret mendojne qe E3b-M78 kane qene ne ballkan bashke me I1b qe nga koha mesolitike.

- Studimi i Cruciani (el 2007) etikon:
Mesolitik: I1b
Neolitik: E3b1a dhe J2b

- Studimi i Battaglia (el 2008) etikon:
Mesolitik: I1b dhe E3b1a
Neolitik: J2b dhe G2

p.s G2 ky e quan haplogrup evropian (ku epiqendra eshte ne Gjeorgji dhe me shume eshte i perhapur ne Kaukaz, Rusine jugore dhe lindjen e mesme)

Te dyte jane studies shume te njohur dhe qe tani jane kontradite sa i perket haplogrupit E-V13 ne te cilen epiqendra eshte tek shqiptaret.

[Explorer]

Shume pak dituri kam rreth kesaj materie qe po e trajtoni ju ne kete teme.
Me vjen edhe shume interesante, prandaj kam lexuar disa artikuj ne lidhje me keto haplogrupet.
Por e pranoj se jam i pa afte qe te polemizoj ne kete teme sepse nuk eshte preofesioni im.
Shkruaj vec per te bere nje pyetje:
Sa jane te sakta keto studime dhe cfare demesh fatale mund te sjellin keta per njerezimin ose cfare dobishe kemi nga keta studime.
Une mendoj se keto studime me shume e Ushqejne racizmin se sa shfrytezohen per nje studim te mirefillte.

..............

Sa per ata dy shkencetaret qe kane ra ne kontradikte, them se ata kane per te nxjerrur gjithmone dicka te re mvaresisht se prej kujt do te paguhen me shume.
Ata vec i kane formuar grupet e veta opinioniste dhe pameshirshem jane duke manipuluar.
Ështe formuar nje katravure dhe pasiguri me keto haplogrupet, saqe uroj qe fundi te jete i hajrit.
...............
Pershendetje dhe respekte !

[GL_Branch]

Exploler keto nuk jane as pak te demshem per njerzimin eshte shume absurde por vetem cfare te ndihmojne qe te nxjerrin ne pah disa gjera rreth historise dhe te se kaluares tone.

Sa i perket ketyre 3 haplogrupeve se cilit popull i ka takuar edhe pse ne ate kohe ishin te perzier prap mund ti vecojme pak a shume, me sa kam lexuar une duke perputhuar edhe me ane arkeologjike dhe fakteve kronologjike mendoj qe:

E3b1 - i takon (Iliro-thrakas)
J2b - (Grekeve)
I2a - (Dacianeve)

[Sturmgewehr]

Exploler keto nuk jane as pak te demshem per njerzimin eshte shume absurde por vetem cfare te ndihmojne qe te nxjerrin ne pah disa gjera rreth historise dhe te se kaluares tone.

Sa i perket ketyre 3 haplogrupeve se cilit popull i ka takuar edhe pse ne ate kohe ishin te perzier prap mund ti vecojme pak a shume, me sa kam lexuar une duke perputhuar edhe me ane arkeologjike dhe fakteve kronologjike mendoj qe:

E3b1 - i takon (Iliro-thrakas)
J2b - (Grekeve)
I2a - (Dacianeve)

Gabim

E1b1b ( ish- E3b1 perndryshe E-v13 dhe JO E-M78)

E-V13 eshte Alpha CLuster te Shqiptaret dhe eshte Haplogroup Evropian kurse E-M78 eshte Beta dhe Delta Cluster ke greket dhe ne Lindjen e mesme poashtu dhe ke Berberet en Maroko.

E1b1b ose E3b1 eshte Haplogrupi me i vjeter en Evrope me 26 000 Vjet pastaj vin R1a she R1b me 23 000 kurse I2a eshte shume me i rri dikund 5000 deri ne 10 000 dhe ky I2a paramendohet te kete Evoluar ose rjedh nga J2a ose E1b1b por me saktesi askush nuk e din.

Haplogroupi I2a ose Shkurtimisht I* eshte ivetmi Haplogroup dhe me i vjetri ne Evrope kurse Haplogrouped E1b1b dhe R1a dhe te tjerit jane te erdhur ne Evrope mbas epokes se Fundit te akullnajave.

[GL_Branch]

Sturmgewehr, mos u ngut dhe lexo siper cfare shkrujta qe E3b-M78 (se shumica e shkenctareve e perdorin kete term) ndryshe quhet edhe E-v13 dhe E3b1a (alfa).

Dhe e dyta mos ja fut kot se askush se ka percaktu qe eshte me e vjetera ne Evrope dhe mos e devijo temen duke shpreh deshiren emocionale.

[Sturmgewehr]

Haplogroup E-V13 is the only lineage that reaches the highest frequencies out of Africa. In fact, it represents about 85% of the European E-M78 chromosomes with a clinal pattern of frequency distribution from the southern Balkan peninsula (19.6%) to western Europe (2.5%). The same haplogroup is also present at lower frequencies in Anatolia (3.8%), the Near East (2.0%), and the Caucasus (1.8%). In Africa, haplogroup E-V13 is rare, being observed only in northern Africa at a low frequency (0.9%).
– Cruciani et al. (2007)
Cruciani et al. (2007) also note evidence for "trans-Mediterranean migrations directly from northern Africa to Europe (mainly in the last 13.0 ky)", and flow from North Africa to western Asia between 20.0 and 6.8 ky ago. While there were apparently direct migrations from North Africa to Iberia and Southern Italy (E-V12, E-V22, and E-V65), the majority of E-M78 lineages found in Europe belong to the E-V13 sub-clade which appears to have entered Europe from the Near East, where it apparently originated, via the Balkans (see below).

The E3b found in Albania and other Balkan countries is almost non-existent in Africa and common in Europe with high concentrations in the Balkans, so that specific subclade is considered European.

http://www.jogg.info/32/bird.htm


K => 40,000 years ago (probably arose in northern Iran)
T => 30,000 years ago (around the Red Sea)
J => 30,000 years ago (in the Middle East)
R => 28,000 years ago (in the Central Asia)
E1b1b => 26,000 years ago (in southern Africa)
I => 25,000 years ago (in the Balkans)
R1a => 21,000 years ago (in southern Central Asia)
R1b => 20,000 years ago (in the Northwest Asia)
E-M78 => 18,000 years ago (in north-eastern Africa)
G => 17,000 years ago (between India and the Caucasus)
I2 => 17,000 years ago (in the Balkans)
J2 => 15,000 years ago (in northern Mesopotamia)
I2b => 13,000 years ago (in Central Europe)
R1a1 => 12,000 years ago (north of the Black Sea)
N1c1 => 12,000 years ago (in Siberia)
I2a => 11,000 years ago (in the Balkans)
R1b1b2 => 10,000 years ago (in the Eurasian Steppes)
J1 => 10,000 years ago (in the Arabian peninsula)
E-V13 => 10,000 years ago (in the Balkans)
I2b1 => 9,000 years ago (in Germany)
I2a1 => 8,000 years ago (in Sardinia)
I2a2 => 7,500 years ago (in the Dinaric Alps)
E-M81 => 5,500 years ago (in the Maghreb)
I1 => 5,000 years ago (in Scandinavia)
R1b-L21 => 4,000 years ago (in the British Isles)
R1b-S28 => 3,500 years ago (around the Alps)
R1b-S21 => 3,000 years ago (in Frisia)
I2b1a => less than 3,000 years ago (in Britain)


http://www.eupedia.com/europe/origin...s_europe.shtml


Jo nuk po Ngutem aspak ja edhe me Burim ku ke edhe Linkun

[Sturmgewehr]

Wikipedia

E1b1b1a2 (E-V13)

The E-V13 clade is equivalent to the "alpha cluster" of E-M78 reported in Cruciani et al. (2004), and was first defined by the SNP V13 in Cruciani et al. (2006).
Haplogroup E-V13 is the only lineage that reaches the highest frequencies out of Africa. In fact, it represents about 85% of the European E-M78 chromosomes with a clinal pattern of frequency distribution from the southern Balkan peninsula (19.6%) to western Europe (2.5%). The same haplogroup is also present at lower frequencies in Anatolia (3.8%), the Near East (2.0%), and the Caucasus (1.8%). In Africa, haplogroup E-V13 is rare, being observed only in northern Africa at a low frequency (0.9%).
– Cruciani et al. (2007)
Within Europe, E-V13 is especially common in the Balkans where high concentrations are reported amongst Albanians, ethnic Macedonians, Greeks, Bulgarians, Romanians, and Serbs.

In different studies, particularly high frequencies have been observed in Kosovar Albanians (45.6%) (Peričic et al. (2005)) and Peloponnesian Greeks (47%) (Semino et al. (2004)).

Phylogenetic analysis strongly suggest that these lineages have spread through Europe, from the Balkans in a "rapid demographic expansion".

Before then, the SNP mutation, V13 apparently first arose in West Asia around 10 thousand years ago, and although not widespread there, it is for example found in high levels (>10% of the male population) in Turkish Cypriot and Druze Arab lineages.

The Druze are considered a genetically isolated community[29], and are therefore of particular interest. Their STR DNA signature was actually originally classified in the delta cluster in Cruciani et al. (2004). This means that Druze E-V13 clustered together with most E-V12 and E-V22, and not with European E-V13, which was mostly in the alpha cluster. This can be summarized in a table format...

E-V13 is also found in scattered and small amounts in Libya (in the Jewish community) and Egypt, but this is considered most likely to be a result of migration from Europe or the Near East.


E-V13 and Ancient Migrations The apparent movement of E-V13 lineages from the Near East to Europe, and their subsequent rapid expansion, make E-V13 particularly interesting subject for speculation about ancient human migrations.

Early Migration from the Middle East to Europe The haplogroup J2b (J-M12) is frequently also discussed in connection to V13, as a haplogroup with a seemingly very similar distribution and pre-history.

Cruciani et al. (2007) says there were at least four major demographic events which have been envisioned for this geographic area:
The "post-Last Glacial Maximum expansion (about 20 kya)"
The "Younger Dryas-Holocene reexpansion (about 12 kya)"
The "population growth associated with the introduction of agricultural practices (about 8 kya)"
The "development of Bronze technology (about 5kya)"
The distribution and diversity of V13 were thought to be suggestive that it was brought to the Balkans along with early farming technologies, during the Neolithic expansion. However, Cruciani et al. (2007) more recently suggests that the timing for dispersal of European V13 from the Balkans to the rest of Europe may be much more recent, indeed no earlier than 5300 years ago.

The authors therefore suggest that this might have been associated with an in situ population increase in the Balkans associated with the Balkan Bronze age, rather than an actual migratory movement of peoples from western Asia. In the next step, "the dispersion of the E-V13 and J-M12 haplogroups seems to have mainly followed the river waterways connecting the southern Balkans to north-central Europe".

On the other hand, Battaglia et al. (2008) and King et al. (2008) use age calculation which favor E-V13 dispersal scenarios even older than the Neolithic, in the Mesolithic. Battaglia et al. associate this migration also with the Y haplogroup I-M423.

Greek Soldiers in Pakistan: Both E-V13 and J-M12 have also been used in studies seeking to find evidence of a remaining Greek presence in Afghanistan and Pakistan, going back to the time of Alexander the Great.
An extensive analysis of Y diversity within Greeks and three Pakistani populations – the Burusho, Kalash and Pathan – who claim descent from Greek soldiers allowed us to compare Y lineages within these populations and re-evaluate their suggested Greek origins. This study as a whole seems to exclude a large Greek contribution to any Pakistani population, confirming previous observations. However, it provides strong evidence in support of the Greek origins for a small proportion of Pathans, as demonstrated by the clade E network and the low pairwise genetic distances between these two populations.
– Firasat et al. (2006)
Roman soldiers in Britain: Significant frequencies of E-V13 have also been observed in towns in Wales, England and Scotland. The old trading town of Abergele on the northern coast of Wales in particular showed 7 out of 18 local people tested were in this lineage (approximately 40%), as reported in Weale et al. (2002). Bird (2007) attributes the overall presence of E-V13 in Great Britain, especially in areas of high frequency, to settlement during the 1st through 4th centuries CE by Roman soldiers from the Balkan peninsula. Bird proposes a connection to the modern region encompassing Kosovo, southern Serbia, northern Macedonia and extreme northwestern Bulgaria (a region corresponding to the Roman province of Moesia Superior), which was identified by Peričic et al. (2005) as harboring the highest frequency worldwide of this sub-clade[31].
However, according to data published so far[32], E-V13 appears to be notably absent in Central England, a fact which Bird (2007) suggests reflects a genuine population replacement of Romano-British people with Anglo-Saxons:
The "E3b hole" suggests that either (a) a massive displacement of the native Romano-British population by invasion or, (b) the substantial genetic replacement of Romano-British Y-DNA through an elite dominance ("apartheid") model (Thomas, 2006), has occurred in Central England. Regardless of the mechanism, the Central England region of Britain, with its lack of E3b haplotypes, is the area having the most "striking similarity in the distribution of Y-chromosomes" with Friesland Thomas et al. (2006).
– Bird (2007)
Phoenician Traders in the Mediterranean: Zalloua et al. (2008) have also suggested E1b1b haplotypes (amongst others) to be a sign of Phoenician influence around the Mediterranean.



Une te Kuptoj cka do te thuash edhe une ndonjeher ngatrohem me keto haplogrupe sepse varet nga Burimi ku i lexon dhe cdo burim ka sqarimin e vet tash nuk e di munqe un jam ne te drejt munqe ti je ne te drejt nuk them se ej gabim por une keshtu i kam mesuar keto.

Pershendetje

[GL_Branch]

Sturmgewehr, qy prap i perserit fjalet me trego cfare gabimi sheh ti ketu?...bile edhe vet teksti thote ashtu sic thash, edhe mos sjell ketu COPY-PASTE ke mundur me dhene vetem linkun se po prishet tema.

Por qysh thash ma heret shkenctaret zakonisht perdorin E3b-M78 kurse V-13 (se ka edhe V-22 etj)eshte si pjese e kesaj te cilen mat moshen e saj se kur ka ardh ne Evrope.

Pra kuptove, nuk mund te thuash E-V13 pa e permend E3b-M78 (sepse kjo eshte emri i vertete i haplogrupit) pra atehere holle e holle i bjen "E3b-M78 V13" kurse shkurtimisht e kane shkruar E-V13 dhe prandaj e lash E3b-M78 ne titull si kryesoren sepse shume vet mund ta ngaterrojne kur t'i lexojne tekstet te antropologeve.

[Sturmgewehr]

Sturmgewehr, qy prap i perserit fjalet me trego cfare gabimi sheh ti ketu?...bile edhe vet teksti thote ashtu sic thash, edhe mos sjell ketu COPY-PASTE ke mundur me dhene vetem linkun se po prishet tema.

Por qysh thash ma heret shkenctaret zakonisht perdorin E3b-M78 kurse V-13 (se ka edhe V-22 etj)eshte si pjese e kesaj te cilen mat moshen e saj se kur ka ardh ne Evrope.

Pra kuptove, nuk mund te thuash E-V13 pa e permend E3b-M78 (sepse kjo eshte emri i vertete i haplogrupit) pra atehere holle e holle i bjen "E3b-M78 V13" kurse shkurtimisht e kane shkruar E-V13 dhe prandaj e lash E3b-M78 ne titull si kryesoren sepse shume vet mund ta ngaterrojne kur t'i lexojne tekstet te antropologeve.

PO ama nuk e di sa e lexove Postin e Par ku tregon se E-V13 ne ballkan kurse E-M78 Ne East Africa une te kuptoj ty po un te tregoj at qe kam lexuar nuk di sa e sakt osht ama I2a osht shum Haplogroup i rri ne krahasim me E1b1b

[GL_Branch]

Rreth prezences se ketyre haplogrupeve tek shqiptaret sipas disa studimeve:

- Sipas Roewer et (2005), per Shqiptaret e Shqiperise:

E3b1- M78 = 40%
J2e- M102 = 16%
I1b2- M26 = 9%

- Sipas Pericic et (2005), per Shqiptaret e Kosoves:

E3b1- M78 = 45.6%
J2e- M102 = 16.7%
I1b2- M26 = 2.7%

- Sipas Battaglia et (2008), per Shqiptaret e Maqedonise:

E3b1- M78 = 34.4%%
J2b2 = 14.1%
I2a1 = 9.4%

- Sipas Battaglia et (2008), per Shqiptaret e Shqiperise:

E3b1- M78 = 23.7%
J2b2= 14.5%
I2a1= 14.5%