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  1. #1
    i/e regjistruar Maska e gladiator
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    12-02-2003
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    Iliria
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    217

    Genjeshtra me e madhe ne historine Shqipe

    Versioni tanishem i origjines Shqiptare eshte teoria Ilire. Por a eshte kjo e vertete? Une mendoj se faktet historike thon ndryshe. Ne fillim kush jane Shqiptaret. Ose me mire cfare eshte Shqiperia. Gjeografikisht dihet se ajo shtrihet buze Adriatikut, ne kufij me Malin e Zi, Kosoven, Maqedonin dhe Greqin. Tani cili nga keta territore banohej nga Iliret. Gjeografet e lashte na thon se shume pak, ngaqe sipas tyre Iliria fillonte te Drini dhe zgjatej deri ne Dalmatia. Atehere si ka mundesi qe Shqiptaret derivojne nga Iliret! Pergjigja eshte e thjeshte - historianeve Evropian dhe atyre Enveriste nuk u pelqente e verteta rreth origjines Shqiptare, e keshtu qe atyre ju desh te fabrikonin dicka.
    Atehere kush ishin paraardhesit e Shqiptareve, nqs jo Iliret. Lets see.
    Emri Shqiperis doli ne 14 c AD si nje substitucion per Arbanin, ose Albanin, fisi kryesor Mesjetar Shqiptar, i cili okuponte luginen e Matit, me kryeqender Krujen. Tani Arbani ne periudhat klasike quhet Arbi nga Hekateus dhe Albani nga Ptolemi, dhe te dy keta gjeograf pohojne se ai ishte fis Maqedonas, i lidhur ngushte me Enkelein, ne luginen e Drinit te Zi, i cili quhet edhe Desareti nga Strabo.
    Plini gjithashtu e ben te qarte se Maqedonia okuponte shumicen e Shqiperis sot, kur ai shkruan: 'A Lisso (Lezhe) Macedonia provincia; gentes Partheni at a tergo eorum eum Dassaretae'. (Ne Lezhe fillon Maqedonia; rracat e saj jane Partheni dhe pas tyre Dasareti). Ketyre fiseve Strabo u shton edhe Pirustain, ose Penestain, ne luginen e lartme te Vardarit (perreth Tetoves), i cili sipas tij udhehiqej nga e njejta familje mbreterore si e Enkeleit, Parthinit dhe Arbit. Ky fis mbreteror nuk ishte tjeter vecse paraardhesi i familjes se Kastrioteve, dhe te heqim ndonje fie dyshimi, biem dy fakte. I pari eshte territori dominios se Kastrioteve, duke korresponduar saktesisht me familjen mbreterore Maqedone. Fakti dyte eshte emblema e Kastrioteve- helmet me dy briret e dhise ne maje, e cila eshte nje version i mevonshem i asaj te familjes Maqedone te lashte, e cila mund te duket ne shume monedha te mbreterve Maqedone, vecanerisht ne ato leshuar nga Aleksandri I.
    Por kjo nuk do te thote se Shqiptaret e kane prejardhjen vetem nga Maqedonet, sepse edhe Iliret, Dardanet dhe Epirotet Shqiptare ishin, por qe ne lashtesi Shqiptaret antik perfaqesoheshin nga Maqedonet, sikurse Arberi ne Mesjete qe perfaqesonte shtetin Shqiptar.
    Keta ishin Maqedonet qe ne 335 PK me ne krye mbretin e tyre Aleksandri III u leshuan si nje meteor drejt Azis dhe brenda 12 vjeteve pushtuan shumicen e botes se njohur.
    Por ky version historie nuk e pelqente Evropianeve, sepse per ta ishte e pamundur qe nje vend i varfer si Shqiperia kur Gjermanet, Francezet dhe Anglezet jetonin neper shpella ishte duke ndertuar perandori boterore.
    Kurse Enverit kjo nuk i pelqente ngaqe policia e tij ishte kundra bashkimit te provincave Shiptare ne Maqedoni me Shqiperin proper.
    Keshtu doli versioni historise qe Shqiptaret njohin sot.

    Dhe morali ketij artikulli eshte se Shqiptaret e bashkuar 2,000 vjet me pare pushtuan boten, kush e di se cfare ata mund te arrijne sot.
    Ndryshuar pėr herė tė fundit nga gladiator : 04-06-2006 mė 23:29

  2. #2
    Mjedisor Maska e Edvin83
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    20-03-2006
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    Ti je i vetmi ne bote qe na e hedh kete teori te bazuar thjesht ne disa mendime te tuat te pabazuara ne fakte. Iliria shtrihej qe nga Sllovenia e sotme e deti ne Korint e jo sic thua ti deri ne Dalmaci, per kete ke dokumeta plot nga historiane te kohes, greke e romake.Pastaj ke dokumenta ushtarake te shtetit romak te asaj kohe qe vertetojne kete. Shqiptaret ishin ajo qe mbeti nga Ilira jugore dhe Dardania, pjesa tjeter u asimilua ne detin e madh sllav qe i pershiu iliret e veriut. Kufiri verior i ilireve ka qene lumi Sava e Drava dhe Danubi, iliret e veriut kufizoheshin me fise kelte, kurse ne verilindje kufizoheshin me trake e dake, kete e deshmojne dhe mbetjet gjuhesore ne fiset Rumune deri ne ditet e sotme.
    Me Maqedonet Dardanet dhe Enkelejte kane qene gjithmone ne lufte dhe here pas here ndermerrnin inkursione ne territor Maqedon, megjithese ka pasur dhe martesa sic ishte rasti i nenes se Aleksandrit te madh qe ishte nga Dibra.
    DArdanet shfrytezonin romaket per te dominuar mbi maqedonet dhe shpesh merrnin pjese ne lluften e romakeve kunder maqedonasve.
    Per fakte e burime lexo librin Iliret te Aleksander Stipceviq, dhe librin The Illyrians te John Wilkes, plus dhjetera librave te tjere te arkeologeve e historianeve qe kane bere kerkime rretht kesaj teme.

  3. #3
    i/e regjistruar Maska e gladiator
    Anėtarėsuar
    12-02-2003
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    217
    Eshte e kunderta my friend
    Une jam bazuar ne fakte historike, kurse ti te mendimet e tua.
    Ti nuk permend asnje historian, ose gjeograf.
    Kurse une kam cituar jo me kot Plinin, Strabo, dhe po shtoj tani edhe Ptolemin, i cili e staton fare qarte se Albani (Shqiptaret) ishin fis MAQEDONAS.
    Megjithate po te nxjerr jashte loje keshtu shpejt.
    Kush ishin mbretet e Ilireve. Dihet famijla e Pleuratit, Genti, Skerdi dhe Teuta.
    Tani cilet ishin territoret e tyre. Ik lexoje pak ate John Wilkesin tend se ta thot ai.
    Po sdi Anglisht ta 'thom une' Keta mbreter udhehiqnin Pleurin, Daorsin, Ardiaei, dhe ILIRI proper - ky perfshinte edhe Labeatin ne Shkoder. Dhe kufiri tyre me verior ishte Neretva, ku fillonte Dalmatia. Mbi Dalmatian vinte Liburnia: pastaj Pajonia. Ne lindje te ketyre, pergjate Danubit dhe Saves, ishin Skordiski, Breuki - lideret e te cileve Batot luftuan Romaket; Autariati dhe Mysi- dhe jo Iliret sic thua ti.
    Ne jug fakti me i mire se Iliria mbaronte te Drini bashkuar eshte traktati midis Teutes dhe Romakeve, e ke edhe te Wilkes. Nje nga termat kryesor te traktit ishte qe ANIJET ILIRE NUK DUHEJ TE LUNDRONIN MATAN LEZHES NE GRUPE.
    Pse jo, nqs ky ishte territor Ilire.
    Po ngaqe ne Lezhe fillonte Maqedonia.
    Do me fakte.
    Ne sa pjese ndahej Shqiperia ne periudhat Romake.
    Epiri Vetus, Maqedonia, Epirus Novas dhe Dardania.
    KU VAJTEN ILIRET ?
    No body knows.
    Megjithate ti dukesh ke fantasy te gjere dhe mund ta zbulosh.

  4. #4
    Mjedisor Maska e Edvin83
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    Me fal me duket se paskam lexuar Wilkes tjeter dhe sigurisht Stipceviq qenka krejt gabim dhe qenka shume i trashe...
    Me fal se edhe nuk di anglisht megjtihese kam nje B.S. American Degree.....
    Sigurisht edhe dhejtera shkencetare e dijetare tjere qe ka lexuar dhe u jam referuar jane gabim dhe jane krejt STUPID.
    Cfare te bej se kam fantazi te zgjeruar dhe gjenet e mia cuditerisht jane kaq te ngjashme me maqedonasit megjithese analizat tregojne ndryshe por ndoshta I am that stupid i cannot know...
    Ca te bej, kur jemi kaq te trashe e ka persona kaq te trashe ne kombin e globin tone tokesor dhe shyqyr jane ca persona te vecante si puna juaj qe jane kaq inteligjente

  5. #5
    i/e regjistruar Maska e tonimontana83
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    19-06-2002
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    ITALI
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    12

    Genjeshtra me e madhe ne historine Shqipe

    Pershendetje. Me vjen mire te shoh nje teme te tille ketu ,dhe prandaj po mar pjese ne diskutim.
    Megjithate ,eshte per tu vene re se sa pak interes ka ngjallur kjo tem per pjesmarresit e tjere te forumit. Dhe kjo eshte per tu ardhur keq. Historia e popullit tone eshte shume konfuze per sa i perket parardhesve tane, te pakten ajo histori qe mesojme ne shkolla.
    Jam dakorte me gladiator per sa i perket , interesit te evropiameve dhe fqinjeve tana te mbulojne historine e shqipetareve me genjeshtra.
    Por une nuk do flisja per Maqedonas ,ilire ,epiriot etj...... Por per fise te ndryshme me prejardhe te njejte ajo PELLAZGE. Nuk dua te bie ne kurthin e fakteve apo te permend libra te dryshem te autoreve te huaj , nga angles,frances,gjerman dhe american. Dua te them se kush do te dije te verteten duhet te lexoj shume libra ,per fat te keq me autore te huaj,sepse historianet shqipetare nuk po punonj si dutet ,dhe teni pas diktatures te tmershme qe nuk i linte.
    Them shume libra sepse nuk ka nje liber te mirfillte nga fillimi deri ne fund,te pakten ato qe kam pare une. Te gjithe kishin gjera qe ja vlenin ti lexoje ,por kishin gjera qe nuk rrinin ne kembe.
    Duke thene me prejardhe Pellazge , e di qe jam shume ne siperfaqesor, por mendoj se duhet filluar nga ketu, Nga fakti qe pellazget jane populli me i lashte i evropes, me gjuhen me te lashte te evropes, ku kane prejardhje te gjith "racat" e bardha te evropes. Populli shqipetar munde te gjuhet pasardhesi me i paster i pellazgeve, pikerisht per mosperzirjen me popujt e tjere . Gjuha shqipe eshte e vetmja ne bote qe munde te pasqyroje ate te pellazgeve, saqe greqishtja e lashte eshte 70 % shqipja e sotme, nje nga motivet pse greket e ndryshuan ne ate te sotmen.
    Omeri ,veprat e tij i ka shkruar ne greqishten e lashte ,e cila ishte nje dialekt e gjuhes se pellazgeve (shqipja). Ka shume gjuhetare qe e kane studiuar dhe kane gjetur shume ngjashmeri me gjuhen shqipe,dhe duke e vertetuar qe nuk eshte shqipja ajo qe ka kopjuar greqishten e lashte .
    ETRUSKET (tosk, toskanet ,toskterishtja) kane prejardhje nga Epiri (pellasge) dhe gjuha e tyre gjithashtu , ku dhe latinishtja nje dialekte i greqishtes se lashte. Ja dhe perse toskterishtja ,(dialekti i jugut ) ngjan me latinishten ne vende qe ti ngjaje greqerishtes(moderne) qe e ka aty afer.
    Po dal shume nga tema e di ,por jane gjera shume te aferta me njera tjetren.
    Prandaj jam i mendimit se nuk duhet diskutuar se shqipetaret jane ilire apo maqedonas ,spse gjith keto fise ,bashke me epiriote,dardanet ,albanet ,enkelejte e te tjere jane te gjithe me prejardheje pellazge , keshtu qe Shqipetaret kane prejardhje pellazge, gjaku dhe gjuhe me shume nga gjith te tjeret.
    Kjo eshte ideja qe kam une ,besoj dhe shume te tjere , te pakten ato dhjetra libra me autore ,historiane,arkeolog ,skencare te huaj . Po e perseris dhe nje here qe eshte per te ardhur keq qe nuk ka historiane te mirfillte shqipetare, keshtu nuk do te ishte nevoja te dish gjuhe te huaja per te mesuar qe gjuha jote eshte me e lashta ne kontinentin e vjeter te Evropes.....
    Toni:1ET

  6. #6
    alpha dominant Maska e D@mian
    Anėtarėsuar
    20-09-2005
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    Boston, MA
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    Citim Postuar mė parė nga gladiator
    Kurse une kam cituar jo me kot Plinin, Strabo, dhe po shtoj tani edhe Ptolemin, i cili e staton fare qarte se Albani (Shqiptaret) ishin fis MAQEDONAS.

    Me duket se gabohesh. Albanet vertet referohen ne Gjeografine e Ptolemeut ne pjesen qe flet per Temen (Provincen) e Maqedonise, sipas ndarjes administrative te Perandorise Romake, por provinca ne fjale perfshinte edhe Ilirine e Jugut (nga Lezha e poshte). Shikoje kete harte te periudhes se Rilindjes, bazuar ne burime Romake:


    Sic e sheh, pjesa perendimore e Provinces se Maqedonise, ku gjendet edhe fisi Albani, banohet nga "Illyricae Gentes" (dmth popuj ilire).



    Edhe njehere e perseris, ndarja ne provinca ka te beje me organizimin administrativ te Perandorise, jo perberjen etnike te vete provincave. Mendoj se kjo e zgjidh keqkuptimin
    FLUCTUAT NEC MERGITUR

  7. #7
    alpha dominant Maska e D@mian
    Anėtarėsuar
    20-09-2005
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    Boston, MA
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    1,170
    Citim Postuar mė parė nga tonimontana83

    Omeri ,veprat e tij i ka shkruar ne greqishten e lashte ...
    Cili Omer? Vrioni?
    FLUCTUAT NEC MERGITUR

  8. #8
    i/e regjistruar Maska e gladiator
    Anėtarėsuar
    12-02-2003
    Vendndodhja
    Iliria
    Postime
    217
    Se kuptoj nga doli ky fis i quajtur Iliria e Jugut, kur as edhe nje nga historianet e lashte - Herodoti, Thycudites, Hekateus, Polybius dhe Livvy, e shume te tjere, asnjehere nuk permendin nje popull te tille ne historite e tyre.
    Edhe njehere teorit qe fiset Maqedone - Arbi, Partheni, Enkelei, Desareti, Lynkesti dhe dhe Pirustai, ishin Ilire dolen me vone nga historianet e mevonshem ne menyre qe Maqedonet ata ti benin Greke. Por ajo Maqedonia Greke, qe quhej edhe Emathia, u pushtua nga Enkelei dhe Pirustai, dhe si rrjedhoje tere dominios se tyre ju dha ai emer.
    U mundova te email harten e Ptolemit, por nuk munda. Me vin keq.
    Megjithate i lini cfare thone Rilindasit, apo Stipcevici, dhe Wilkes. por po done te zbuloni te verteten studioni dokumentat e lashte, sepse atehere Maqedonet akoma nuk e kishin pushtuar boten, dhe keshtu nuk i interesonte njeriu te fallsifikonte historine. Ne fakt, te gjitha librat kushtuar Maqedoneve dhe Aleksandrit, si Kleisthenes, Ptolemi - mbreti Egjyptit, Aristobolus dhe Kleitarku, jane zhdukur te gjithe pa lene gjurme. Perse? Sepse ata thonin te verteten.
    Keshtu qe ju do gjeni vetem fragmente.

    Do tjua dija per nder nqs nuk postoni me mesazhe ne kete teme, por vetem e lexoni, dhe po te doni e besoni. Une e hapa kete teme duke qene shume i sigurte ne vetvete pas kater vjetesh rikerkimesh ne arkiva librarish boterore.

  9. #9
    alpha dominant Maska e D@mian
    Anėtarėsuar
    20-09-2005
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    Boston, MA
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    1,170
    Citim Postuar mė parė nga gladiator
    Se kuptoj nga doli ky fis i quajtur Iliria e Jugut, kur as edhe nje nga historianet e lashte - Herodoti, Thycudites, Hekateus, Polybius dhe Livvy, e shume te tjere, asnjehere nuk permendin nje popull te tille ne historite e tyre.
    Nuk foli njeri per ndonje fis te quajtur Iliria e Jugut. Ate qe thashe eshte se Provinca administrative Romake e Maqedonise (e shfaqur ne harten e Ptolemeut) perfshinte rajonin jugor te Ilirise (shiko harten qe postova).

    Citim Postuar mė parė nga gladiator
    Edhe njehere teorit qe fiset Maqedone - Arbi, Partheni, Enkelei, Desareti, Lynkesti dhe dhe Pirustai, ishin Ilire dolen me vone nga historianet e mevonshem ne menyre qe Maqedonet ata ti benin Greke.
    Fiset qe ti permend jane permendur jane te permendur si Ilire ne tekstet e lashtesise (mgjs nuk jam i sigurt per Lyncesti).

    Citim Postuar mė parė nga gladiator
    U mundova te email harten e Ptolemit, por nuk munda. Me vin keq.
    Eshte harta qe kam postuar.

    Citim Postuar mė parė nga gladiator
    Megjithate i lini cfare thone Rilindasit, apo Stipcevici, dhe Wilkes.
    Nuk e kuptoj c'hyjne Rilindasit ketu! Stipcevic dhe Wilkes jane historiane te afirmuar dhe me kredenciale akademike, si te leme cfare thone ata per keto tema, ke te degjojme atehere?

    Citim Postuar mė parė nga gladiator
    por po done te zbuloni te verteten studioni dokumentat e lashte, ...
    Cilat dokumente? Ku ndodhen keto? Na jep dicka konkrete (p.sh., datim, autor, perkthim, muze, arkive etj)

    Citim Postuar mė parė nga gladiator
    Ne fakt, te gjitha librat kushtuar Maqedoneve dhe Aleksandrit, si Kleisthenes, Ptolemi - mbreti Egjyptit, Aristobolus dhe Kleitarku, jane zhdukur te gjithe pa lene gjurme. Perse? Sepse ata thonin te verteten.
    Keshtu qe ju do gjeni vetem fragmente.
    Ti ku e di se cfare shkruanin ato, derisa jane te zhdukura? Cilat fragmente?

    Citim Postuar mė parė nga gladiator
    Do tjua dija per nder nqs nuk postoni me mesazhe ne kete teme, ...
    Atehere perse e hape?

    Pershendetje
    FLUCTUAT NEC MERGITUR

  10. #10
    R[love]ution Maska e Hyllien
    Anėtarėsuar
    28-11-2003
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    Citim Postuar mė parė nga Edvin83
    Ti je i vetmi ne bote qe na e hedh kete teori te bazuar thjesht ne disa mendime te tuat te pabazuara ne fakte. Iliria shtrihej qe nga Sllovenia e sotme e deti ne Korint e jo sic thua ti deri ne Dalmaci, per kete ke dokumeta plot nga historiane te kohes, greke e romake.Pastaj ke dokumenta ushtarake te shtetit romak te asaj kohe qe vertetojne kete. Shqiptaret ishin ajo qe mbeti nga Ilira jugore dhe Dardania, pjesa tjeter u asimilua ne detin e madh sllav qe i pershiu iliret e veriut. Kufiri verior i ilireve ka qene lumi Sava e Drava dhe Danubi, iliret e veriut kufizoheshin me fise kelte, kurse ne verilindje kufizoheshin me trake e dake, kete e deshmojne dhe mbetjet gjuhesore ne fiset Rumune deri ne ditet e sotme.
    Me Maqedonet Dardanet dhe Enkelejte kane qene gjithmone ne lufte dhe here pas here ndermerrnin inkursione ne territor Maqedon, megjithese ka pasur dhe martesa sic ishte rasti i nenes se Aleksandrit te madh qe ishte nga Dibra.
    DArdanet shfrytezonin romaket per te dominuar mbi maqedonet dhe shpesh merrnin pjese ne lluften e romakeve kunder maqedonasve.
    Per fakte e burime lexo librin Iliret te Aleksander Stipceviq, dhe librin The Illyrians te John Wilkes, plus dhjetera librave te tjere te arkeologeve e historianeve qe kane bere kerkime rretht kesaj teme.
    Edhe "Greket" me njeri tjetrin ne lufte ishin, sidomos ata qe ja kishin kunjen Spartes. Po si perfundim te "gjithe" "greke" u quajten. Si e shpjegon zoteria juaj kete gje ?

    Cfare gjuhe flitnin Dardanet, Maqedonet dhe Iliret ? Si merreshe vesh Aleksandri me ushtaret e tij ?
    "The true history of mankind will be written only when Albanians participate in it's writing." -ML

  11. #11
    R[love]ution Maska e Hyllien
    Anėtarėsuar
    28-11-2003
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    Mobil Ave.
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    Citim Postuar mė parė nga Edvin83
    Me fal me duket se paskam lexuar Wilkes tjeter dhe sigurisht Stipceviq qenka krejt gabim dhe qenka shume i trashe...
    Me fal se edhe nuk di anglisht megjtihese kam nje B.S. American Degree.....
    Sigurisht edhe dhejtera shkencetare e dijetare tjere qe ka lexuar dhe u jam referuar jane gabim dhe jane krejt STUPID.
    Cfare te bej se kam fantazi te zgjeruar dhe gjenet e mia cuditerisht jane kaq te ngjashme me maqedonasit megjithese analizat tregojne ndryshe por ndoshta I am that stupid i cannot know...
    Ca te bej, kur jemi kaq te trashe e ka persona kaq te trashe ne kombin e globin tone tokesor dhe shyqyr jane ca persona te vecante si puna juaj qe jane kaq inteligjente
    Wilkes, ky po ky. Ka ca teori shume interesante qe percaresit e tipit Ardian Klosi me disa te tjere atje nga ne mund ti inkorporojne ne teorite e tyre internacionaliste te targuara gjermani apo kujtdo shteti qe i pergjigjen. Megjithate puna e ketit Wilkes, nese mund te quhet e tille mjafton puna pararendese e Jakov Milajt. Me nje perkthim ne Anglisht, meqe paske dhe American BS Degree rregullohet ajo pune. Por kjo behet nese ke vullnet te mire per gjerat dhe nese idealin qe nderon e ka emrin Shqiperi jo ................
    "The true history of mankind will be written only when Albanians participate in it's writing." -ML

  12. #12
    i/e regjistruar Maska e gladiator
    Anėtarėsuar
    12-02-2003
    Vendndodhja
    Iliria
    Postime
    217
    U thashe mos dergoni me mesazhe sepse ka tipa qe edhe sikur Aleksandri Madh te ngrihet nga varri e tu thote se ej une jam Shqiptar, dhe mbreteria ime shtrihej nga Egjeu deri ne Adriatik, ata lloj tipash do mundohen te kundershtojne, pavaresisht se nuk e kane idene fare per se ata flasin.
    Ajo harta jote, grupi, nuk e di nga ka ardhur, por e Ptolemit ajo nuk eshte, sepse ate te Ptolemit une e kam para syve dhe eshte krejt ndryshe. Ose mbase eshte e ndonje Ptolemi Shqiptar. Shiko cfare viti eshte prodhuar, kjo e imja i perket shekullit te II AD. Dhe ajo harta jote e ncjerr Maqedonin deri te Deti Zi, duke i bere edhe Thraket Maqedone, qe eshte qesharake.
    Ata librat e zhdukur dihet se cfare permbanin sepse ka libra te tjeter qe jane bazuar tek ata, dhe na thone se cila ishte permbajtja e burimeve te tyre.
    Por nqs ju se keni mendjen per te lexuar dhe kerkuar, por per tu gricur me njeri tjetrin seshte faji im.
    Megjithate, ai qe mbahet si me i dituri nga juve le ti pergjigjet pak pyetjes se kush ishin mbreterit e Albanit, Parthinit, Enkeleit dhe Penestait?????????
    Ai qe e verteton se mbretet e tyre ishin Ilire ka zgjidhur gjithe problemin.

    Une tani po citoj nje fragment nga Thukydides, i cili e njihte mire Maqedonin.
    vetem mos thoni nuk eshte e vertete sepse Thukydides jetoi ne shekullin e V PK, dhe ishte gjalle ne kohen kur Maqedonet u duken ne histori per here te pare.

    Ushtria e Sitalkes (mbreti Thrak) zebriti ne Maqedonin e Poshtme, e cila udhehiqej nga Perdika (mbreti Maqedon). Ngaqe rraca Maqedone perfshin edhe LYNKESTET dhe ELIMIOTET, dhe fiset e tjera nga Vendi Siperm. (Lynkestet banonin ne Crna Reka, me qender Bitolen; kurse Elimioti okuponte luginen e Devollit dhe Osumit me qender Elimaj - Irmaj ne Gramsh). Kurse Maqedonia afer Detit, pra Maqedonia Greke, u pushtua per here te pare nga ata Maqedonet e Siperm.

    Thykudides mbase nuk i percakton ata FISET E TJERE NGA VENDI SIPERM, por derisa Maqedonia Greke ishte e pushtuar prej tyre, ata fiset ndodheshin patjeter ne veri te Lynkestit dhe Elimiotit, pra territori Enkeleit, Penestait, Parthini dhe Brygi.

    Ai qe eshte interesuar per harten e vertete te Ptolemit te me dergoi emailin dhe ja nis une.

  13. #13
    burnt... Maska e ash
    Anėtarėsuar
    05-12-2005
    Postime
    103
    ne ndihme te debatit interesant po sjell ca te dhena :


    LIST OF ILLYRIAN TRIBES



    Ardiaei

    Abri

    Agrianes

    Amantini

    Andizetes

    Arrianes

    Atintani (Atintanes)

    Autariates (Autariate)

    Azali

    Boii

    Breuci

    Bylliones

    Carni

    Catari

    Celegeri

    Chelidones

    Colapiani (Colapani)

    Cornacates

    Daesitiates

    Daorsi

    Dardani

    Dassarstae (Dassarenses,Dassaretae)

    Daversi

    Delmatae (Delmetae)

    Deraemestae

    Deuri

    Dindari

    Ditiones

    Docleatae

    Encheleae (Enchelleae)

    Eravisci

    Glintidiones

    Grabaei

    Histri

    Iapode (Japodes)

    Iasi (Jasi)

    Labeatae (Labeates)

    Latobici

    Liburni

    Maedi

    Maezaei

    Melcumani

    Moesi

    Molossi (Molossii) (nga te cilet rrjedh edhe nena e Aleksandrit te Madh)
    Naransii

    Oseriates (Osseriates)

    Paeones

    Parthini

    Perestae (Penestae)

    Pirustae (Pipustae)

    Plearaei

    Sardeaties

    Scirtari

    Scordisci

    Seleiitani

    Siculotae

    Soirtones

    Taulanti (Tallanii)

    Triballi

    Vardaei

    Veneti
    gone with the wind...

  14. #14
    burnt... Maska e ash
    Anėtarėsuar
    05-12-2005
    Postime
    103
    Hellenic Illyrian Tribes

    Greek civilization grew out of a welter of various Hellenic Illyrian tribal nations which had occupied the region from time immemorial or had entered from elsewhere at an early date. Not much is known of this complex group of interrelated peoples.


    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------


    ĘTHIKES They lived in northern and northwestern Thessaly, on Pindos and Karvounia mountains, near the Peneios river. They were neighbours of the Athamanes and the Tymphaioi and were first mentioned by Homer. They were regarded by other Hellenic peoples as barbarians and thieves. Their towns were Metsovo and Malakasio (nowadays within the administrative division of Ioannina). They disappeared after the Roman annexation of Greece in the 2nd century BCE.

    AGRĘOI They lived in the Agrapha Mountains, between the rivers Achelous and Agraphiotes. They called their land Agraea or Agrais. Important cities were Agrinio (capital city of the administrative division of Aetoloakarnania) and Ephyra.
    They created their own kingdom.

    Salynthios........................................ .fl. c. 430 BCE
    To the Ętolian League...
    AKARNANES They lived in Akarnania, having arrived there from Argos. Their cities were Amphilochia, Amphilochikon Argos, Limnaea, Stratos, Oiniades, Anaktorio, Echinos, Aktio, Solion, Alyzea, Astakos, Phoitia, Medeon, Thourion, and Metropolis.

    Alkmeon
    Akarnan, with...
    Amphoteros
    The Akarnanian League..................................5th cent.
    Allied to the Amphilochians
    Allied to Athens.............................5th cent.-391
    To Sparta..........................................39 1-371
    To Thebes..........................................37 1-300
    To Epirus..........................................30 0-273
    Allied to the Ętolian League.......................270-245
    To the Ętolian League..............................245-231
    2nd Akarnanian League..............................230-225
    To Macedonia.......................................22 5-197
    Within the Roman State from 197...
    Mnasilochos...................................190-189
    ALMOPIA They were located northwestern Macedonia, nowadays adm.div. of Pella, between the rivers Loudias and Axios and between the regions of Eordaea and Pelagonia. The region was inhabited by few people, who were isolated - therefore it was one of the first regions occupied by Macedonia. The primary cities were Orma, Apsalos, Europos, and Notia.

    Almopas
    To Macedon
    AONES Ancient inhabitants of Boeotia after the Ektines, regarded by other Hellenes as barbarians. They lived near Thebes, and came from Sounion (Attica) to Boeotia, together with Temmikes, Leleges, and Yandes.

    Aon (Aonia - later called Boeotia - was named after him)
    Defeated by the Cadmians
    Afterwards they lived between north of Thebes and Lake Yliki.
    APERANDOI They lived between the rivers Agraphiotes and Megdovas, to the Agrapha mountains, neighbours of the Agraeoi. They were an Ętolian sub-tribe.

    ATHAMANES They lived in northeastern Epirus, on Tzoumerka mountains and in part of the administrative division of Trikala. They were regarded by other Hellenes as a semi-barbarian tribe. Important cities of this tribe: Argothea (capital city) and Theodoria.

    Athamas
    To the Corinthian League........................c. 395-378
    To the 2nd Athenian League.........................378-
    During the 2nd Sacred War allied to Macedonia
    Opposed to Phocis 354
    Opposed to Macedonia 323
    Under the control of Macedonia
    Alliance with Pyrros of Epirus
    Theodoros......................................... .fl. c. 205
    Amynandrus........................................ .fl. c. 201
    Formed an Athamanian League
    ATINDANES They lived in the region between Chaonia and Dodoni, in northwest Epirus.

    Allied to the tribe of Molossoi...................c. 429
    Allied to Rome....................................c. 229
    Allied to Macedonia..............................225-221
    To Macedonia......................................... .....205
    AVANDES They lived in Euboea. They were a protohellenic tribe that came into Greece appr. 2100-1900 BCE. They had lived initially in Phocis (Avai) and some of them in Argolis, Sicyon, Epirus, and Asia Minor.

    Avas
    Elephinor
    Chalkodous
    After the Trojan war they colonized Illyria.
    They disappeared after the Ionian invasion on Euboea...
    BOEOTOI The region of Boeotia is northwest of Attica, nowadays one of the 52 administrative divisions of modern Greece.

    Boeotus
    Itonus
    Hippalcimus, with...
    Alector, and...
    Areilycus
    Leaders of the province during the Trojan war:
    Peneleus
    Leitos
    Arcesilaus
    Prothenor
    Klonios
    Three generations after the Trojan War the region was inhabited by the Boeotian tribe. They lived initially on the Boios mountain of Pindos, between Epirus and Macedonia. From there they moved to Arne between Thessaly and the Pagasitikos bay (till the end of the late Hellenic era). They claimed to be an Ętolian sub-tribe.

    Boeotos
    Opheltas......................................fl. 1150-1100
    Xanthos
    By the end of the monarchy, the tribe had colonized the whole region, by c. 950.
    1st Boeotian League................................525-480
    This consisted of the city-states of Thebes, Koronea, Aliartos, Tanagra, Thespies, while Orchomenos and Plataea remained independent, and Eleutheres and Erythres went to Athens.
    Allied to Persia..............................490-479
    2nd Boeotian League................................479-447
    3rd Boeotian League................................447-387
    Boeotia was divided into districts in this era. These were:
    a.) Thebais (including the cities of Thebes, Knopia, Ogchestos, Potniae, Kalydna, Therapnae, Schoinous, Peteon, Teumissos, Glisas, Yla, Foinikis, Tropheia),
    b.) Orchomenia or Phlegyandis or Andreis (Orchomenos, Askledon, Tegyra, Yettos, Achmones, Kyrtone),
    c.) Chaeronea,
    d.) Kopon (Kopes, Akraefnio),
    e.) Levadeia,
    f.) Koronea (Koronea, Alalkomemes, Tylfossion),
    g.) Aliartia (Aliartos, Medeon, Okalea),
    h.) Thespiki (Thespies, Eutrisi, Lefktra, Kerissos, Nisa, Askre, Ippotes, Thisvi, Korsies, Sifoi),
    i.) Plataeis (Plataea),
    j.) Tanagraea or Poimandria (Tanagra, Delio),
    k.) Parasopea (Eteonos, Skolos, Ysies, Erythres),
    l.) Tetrakomia (Phires, Aulis, Mykalessos, Arma, Eleion, Yrea),
    m.) Anthedon (Anthedon, Isos, Salganeas),
    n.) Larymna (Karsea, Ales),
    o.) Oropos
    4th Boeotian League................................378-338
    To Macedon.........................................33 8-245
    5th Boeotian League...........................336-146
    To Aetolia.........................................24 5-236
    To Macedon.........................................23 6-146
    To the Roman Republic..............................146-27
    6th Boeotian League.......................146 BCE-3rd cent. CE
    To the Roman Empire (dist. of Achaea 85 BCE)....27 BCE-395 CE
    CHAONES Ancient protohellenic tribe with a Pelasgian root. They lived in Epirus, between the Keraunia mountains and Kalamas river, therefore the first name of Epirus was Chaonia. They were related the the Chaones of southern.Italy. Important cities: Vouthroton, Ilion, Foenice, Panormos, Ogchismos, Amandia, Antigonea

    Chaon
    They developed a system relying on an annual leader. By the 5th century they had combined to a large degree with local Thesprotean and the Illyrian peoples.
    Allied to Ambracia against the Akarnanes..........428
    Photios and...
    Nikanor
    To the League of Epirus............................232-170
    To Rome.............................................. ..170
    DOLOPES An ancient Aetolian tribe, related to the Magnites. They lived in Acarnania, southern Thessaly, and Phthia. Their borders were Phthia and Aenianes (East), Eurytanes-Agraeoi (South), Amphilochia (West), Athamanes-Thessaliotis (North). Their capital city was Ktimeni; other important cities were Dolopeis, Ageiai, Menelais, and Ellopia.

    Dolops
    Ktimenes
    To Phthia
    Phoinikas
    Allied to Persia during the Persian Wars
    Opposed to Herakleia 420.
    To Pheres 374
    To Macedonia 344
    Allied to Athens 323
    To the Aetolian League
    To Macedonia
    Independent....................................... .189-174
    DORIANS A major Hellenic group of closely related tribes or septs, the Dorians are regarded both in archeology and in legend as the conquerors of the Peloponessus. Initially they lived in the area near Mount Olympus, in the land of Doris. In the 12th century they began migrating southward, and three separate Doric tribes (Hylleis, Pamphyloi, and the Dymanes) settled in eastern and southern Peloponnesus, displacing the native Achaeans. The mythological account of this has it that these three groups were the descendents of three Herakleides (children of Herakles), Temenus, Aristodemus, and Cresphontes, who successfully recovered an inheritence lost to a cousin, Eurysthenes of Mycenae. They were a rather dour, plain-spoken, and harshly disciplined people - as their best-known branch, the Classic Age Spartans, personified greatly. The tension between themselves and the other great Hellenic people, the Ionians - who regarded Dorics as barely-literate, ill-mannered martinets - is at the heart of a great deal of Greek historical development.

    Doros
    Ęgimios
    Yllos
    Colonization of the Peloponnesus..................from c. 1100
    Afterwards the Dorians colonized Megara, Argolis, Laconia, Messinia, Aegina, Milos, Thera, Crete, Rhodes and Corinth.

    DRYOPES Related to the tribe of Leleges, they were a barbaric tribe. They lived in the area between the mountains Oiti and Parnassus. They called their land Dryopis. Owing to Dorian pressure they evacuated their land and colonized Euboea, Karystos, Styra, Cyprus, Kythnos, Argolis (Asine, Nemea), Messinia, and Epirus. Main city: Drys.

    Dryops
    Melaneus
    EKTINES The first inhabitants of Boeotea.

    Ogygos
    EORDAEA Ancient region (and tribe) in western Macedonia near the lake Vegoritis. Eordaea’s borders were Almopia-Lyngistis (North), Elimea (South), Imathia (East), Orestis (West). Inhabited during the late Bronze Age, the Eordoi were a proto-Hellenic, Indo-European that came to Eordaea appr. 2200 BCE. Nowadays there is the administrative division of Kozane. Main cities were Eordaea, Arnissa, Vegora and Kellas. Eordaea was the birthplace Ptolemy Lagos, the Macedonian general who gained the throne of Egypt.

    Eordos
    Destroyed by the Timenides of Macedonia
    Allied to the Greeks during the Persian wars
    EPEIOI A Pelasgian tribe in the western Peloponnesus, they lived in Elea, Pisatis, western Achaea, and the Echinades islands. Their cities: Vouprasion, Elida, Yrmine, Myrsinos, Olene, Dyme, Ephyra, Kyllene, Pylos, Aleisio.

    Epeios
    During the Trojan War there were 4 different kingdoms...
    Polyxenos and...
    Thalpios and...
    Andimachos and...
    Diores
    Many conjoined with Kaukones and Ionians and lived in Achaea (the Larissos River district).
    The Epeioi of Pisa combined with the Arcadians and dwelt lived in Pisatis.
    Agorios
    The remaining eventually melded with the Ętolians and lived in Elea; Elean sequence thereafter...
    EURYTANES An Ętolian sub-tribe, they lived in the district of Karpenissi (todayapital city of Evritania), between the mountains Panaitolikon and Tymfristos. Their borders were Aenianes (East), Dolopes (North), Aperandoi-Akarnanes (West), Aetolians (South), Thestians (Southwest), Ofionians (Southeast). During the prehistoric era they had probably lived in Thessaly. Their capital city was Oichalia.

    Eurytos
    Allied to the Ętolians
    From time to time to the Achaeans of Phthia, to Thessaly or to Macedonia
    To Rome 146
    GEFYRAEOI A non Hellenic tribe (Poinicians) They lived in Boeotia in the town Gefyra. Afterwards they moved into Attica It is claimed that they brought the alphabet into Greece. Homeland of Armodios and Aristogeiton, murderers of the Athenian tyrants Hippias and Hipparchus

    IDONOI They lived in western Thrace, between the rivers Strymon and Nestos (nowadays there are the cities Drama and Zichne). Their land was called Idonis or Andandros. Important cities were Myrkinos (capital-city), Draviskos and Amphipolis.

    Idoneus
    Lykurgos
    Getas............................................. .fl. c. 500
    To Persia during the Persian wars
    IONIANS One of the great pan-Hellenic tribal groups. They lived initially in southwestern Thessaly, but at a very early date migrated south. Some of them remained in southwestern Thessaly and others moved to west Locris, Achaea and Pisa. Afterwards they colonized Attica and Asia Minor. They also extensively settled the Cyclades, Euboea, Corinth, Megara, Epidaurus, and by the end of the Mycenean era they were in Attica, Megaris, Epidaurus, Troezin, Kynourua and Achaea. Defeated by the Achaeans, Minyes, Phlegyes and Lapithes, they remained largely in Attica, some of the islands, and most especially in western Asia Minor, which became known as "Ionia". They are to a large extent responsible for Greek literature, philosophy, and much Hellenic art (the Ionian dialect is the foundation upon which standard Classic Greek developed, which in turn gave birth to "Koine" (Common speech - the language of most of the New Testament), Byzantine dialects, and ultimately modern Greek. In acquiescing to Persian hegemony in Asia Minor during the 6th and 5th centuries, they earned the scornful contempt of the Peloponessian Dorians, who regarded Ionians as weak, compliant, mendacious, and very likely treasonous. It is this tension between the two groups which is at the heart of much of Greek historical development.

    Ion
    Partitioned into four sub-tribes: Geleondes, Oplites, Aegikoreis and Argadeis.
    KIKONES They lived between the Evros river and the Vistonis lake. They came there appr. 1300-1200 BCE. Their cities were Xantheia, Maronea, Ismaros, Zone and Kyzikos.

    Allied to Trojans
    Euphimos
    Mendes
    Their capital Ismaros was conquered by Ulysses after the Trojan war
    After the Mycenean era they disappeared as an identifiable people.
    KRESTONES The Kristones lived in Krestonia a Macedonian district between Chalkidicia and the Strymon river. They were a Pelasgo-Thracian sub-tribe. Important cities: Antigonea, Xylopolis, Terpyllos, Karavia, Kreston.

    To Mygdonia from 480 BCE
    LAPITHES The main inhabitants of early Thessaly, together with the centaurs (Northern Pelasgia-Perraivia). Their main cities: Argissa, Gyrtone, Orthe, Elone, Olossoi. They colonized Perraivia. In the 10th cent. they built a lot of cities in other regions (Koronos of Koronea, Phaliros of Phalara, Elatos of Elateia in Arcadia, Boeotia and Phocis, Phorvas and Triopas in Rhodes).

    Lapithus
    Ypseus
    Ixion
    Peirithous
    Kaeneas (his succestors were the Kypselides of Corinth)
    Koronos (his succestors were the Phylaides of Attica) with...
    Polypoites and...
    Leondeus (during the Trojan War)
    They were defeated by Ęgimios, king of the Dorians...
    LELEGES Prehistoric tribe, they were nomads.

    Leles (from Laconia or Egypt)
    They colonized the Cyclades islands, Asia Minor, Aetolia, Acarania, Megara (King Leles), Locris, Leukas, Euboea, Boeotia and Lacedaemon (King Eurotas)
    Leleges from Sparta colonized Messinia (King Polykaon)
    Leleges from Megara colonized Pylos (Messinia) and Pylos (Elis)
    Leleges in Epirus were neighbors of the tribe of Molossoi
    In Thessaly they succeeded the Pelasgoi
    Evacuation of Ionia due to the Greeks 1200-1100 BCE
    Altis (King during the Trojan war - allied to the Trojans)
    After the Trojan war they inhabited Chios and Samos
    Evacuation of Caria owing to pressure from the tribe of Cares
    LYNGISTES They lived in Macedonia, in the Lyngystis Region (nowadays: Florina) and their capital-city was called Herakleia. An Illyrian tribe, they were neighbours of the Dassarites. Main cities were Herakleia, Kella, Vevi.

    VAKCHIADES
    Aeropos
    Vromeros
    Arrabaius......................................... .fl. c. 423
    Argaeus........................................... .fl. c. 391
    To Macedonia appr. 338
    MAGNITES They lived on Thessaly, in Magnesia, they were a Macedonian sub-tribe. Important tribe during the Neolithic, Bronze, Minoan and Mycenean ages. Their cities were: Mithone, Thaumakine, Melivoia, Olizon and Minyai.

    Magnes
    Prothous
    Philoktetes and...
    Medon (during the Trojan War)
    Continued independence until the 6th cent.
    To Thessaly..................................6th cent.-363
    To Pheres..........................................36 3-c. 342
    To Macedonia....................................c. 342-194
    Founding of Demetrias, capital city of Magnesia 293 BCE
    The Magnesian League...............................194-171
    Eurylochos........................................ 193
    To Macedonia.......................................17 1-168
    To Rome - (within the Magnesian League)...........from 168
    MALIEIS They lived in southern Thessaly, a Dorian sub-tribe. The Malians were partitioned into three sub-tribes: Trachinioi, Paralioi, Iereis. Their capital city was Herakleia and afterwards Lamia.

    Within the Malis region (their land was named after them) from c. 1100
    Malos
    To the Amphictiony of Delphi.................8th cent.- ?
    Opposed to the Phoceans end 6th cent.
    To Thessaly
    To Sparta..........................................42 7-c. 371
    To Pheres.......................................c. 371-370
    To Thebes..........................................37 0-343
    To Macedonia.......................................34 3-220
    To the Ętolian league..............................220
    To Thessaly appr. 27 BCE
    MOLOSSOI An Epirote tribe dwelling in the north, who succeeded in gaining control over all of Epirus in late Classical times. They were best known for a breed of huge war-mastiffs they used in military operations.

    For their rulers, see the earliest (pre-Aeacid) leaders of Epirus. Molossus, their eponymous ancestor, was said to have been born of a union between Neoptolemus and Andromache.
    Established the Kingdom of Epirus, 6th or 5th centuries ?
    Epirus to the Aeacid dynasty 395.
    A League of Molossoi formed c. 300, within Epirote and then Roman jurisdiction.
    MYGDONES A Thracian tribe living in southern Macedonia between the rivers Axios and Strymon, in northern Chalkidicia, near the Thermaikos Gulf. Their cities were Therme, Sidos, and Chalestri.

    To Paeonia......................................to the 350's BCE
    To Macedonia thereafter...
    OETAEOI They lived on the mountain Oeti in southern Thessaly and in the 5th century in the valley of Aspos river. Important cities: Antikera, Anthile, Herakleia, Trachis.

    Opposed to Dorians and Trachineans
    Formed the Oeteanid League
    To the Aetolians...................................280-168
    To the Achaean League..............................162-146
    Free and independent for a time; then...
    To the Thessalian League thereafter...
    ORESTES They lived in Epirus in their land called Orestis, which was part of Molossia. They inhabited the northern and northwestern borders of Greece between the rivers Aous and Achelous. They claimed to be successors of Orestes of Mykenaea. Important cities were Orestia and Argos Orestikon.

    To Macedonia
    To the Orestian League of Orestes within Roman hegemony
    To the Roman district of Macedonia
    PAETOI A minor tribe living in the region called Paetike. Their most important city was Zerenia.

    To Persia and against the Greeks during the Persian wars appr. 500-480
    To Macedonia, 336
    Against the Persians 334
    PELASGOI An Indo-European tribe, that came into the Hellenic region appr. 3000 BCE. They lived in western Thessaly and Epirus. Afterwards they colonized not only Argolis and Arcadia, but also some of the Aegean islands, Attica, Crete, Ionia, Achaea, Phocis, Phthiotis, Euboea, Kristonia and Sicyon.

    Pelasgos
    Chloros
    Most of them disappeared after the end of the Mycenean era, but some Pelasgian communities survived till the beginning of the 5th century BCE in Kristonia and Propontis.

    PERRAIVOI They lived in northern Thessaly, initially in the district of Istiaiotis. Their cities were Gonnoi, Olousson, Phalanna, Doliche, and the Perraivean Tripolis (3 cities) consisting of Azoros, Polichna, and Pythion.

    Triopas
    Karkavos.......................................... ..c. 1500 BCE
    Gouneus (during the Trojan war)
    To the Amphictiony of Delphi
    To Larissa
    To Archelaos of Macedonia
    Defeated by the Aetolian League........................199
    Members as free tribe in the Delphian Amphictiony......196
    They created a Perraivean League...................196-191
    To Macedonia.......................................19 1-185
    THE SEA PEOPLES Students of European history will be familiar in a general way with the phenomena of the devolution of Classic cultures, the swarming forth of innumerable barbarian tribes, and the subsequent emergence of the so-called "Dark Ages", together with the slow re-emergence of a vibrant civilization in the Mediaeval and Renaissance eras. Such a model is an oversimplification of what occurred, but it is valid at least in broad descriptive outline. What is perhaps less well recognized is that such a pattern has happened, albeit on a smaller scale, before. Before the 1200's BCE, the Eastern Mediterranean played host to a variety of sophisticated civilizations. For a variety of reasons, the 17th to 13th centuries BCE saw a general retreat, one which did not begin to reverse itself until the 9th century BCE (leading to the eventual flowering of Classic-Age civilization by the 5th century). One important factor in this process was the sudden emergence of a group of barbarian tribes known collectively as the Sea-Peoples. These raiders critically damaged the ancient civilizations of Greece, Anatolia and Syria, and seriously threatened the southern Levant and Egypt. The origins of these peoples are unknown, though it is believed that they emerged from the Aegean and may have been Minoan or Greek in origin. They referred to their own homeland as Ahhiyawa, which seems to be related to the word Achaean. The Hittites described their home as an island near Milawanda (Miletos, on the Ionian coast); which may refer to Rhodes, while the Bible describes their origin-point as Caphtor, which is believed to be Crete. They were technologically and artistically sophisticated, being one of the first groups in the Levant to use iron weapons. The following is a list of the documented Sea Peoples, and what linguists and archeologists believe about their origins and eventual fates...

    DANYA / DANNUNA They have been identified with the Danaoi, mentioned in Homer's Iliad; another, far-fetched explanation is that they are related to the Gaelic Celts (Danaan). Some historians and archeologists have suggested that the Danya invaded Canaan in alliance with the Philistines but then joined the Israelite tribal confederation as the tribe of Dan. The original territory of that tribe bordered Philistia, and the Philistines seemed to bear a particular grudge against the Danites, who eventually relocated to the Galilee.

    EKWESH This name is very similar to the Hittite name for Greeks (Acheans). Very little is known about them.

    LUKKA These are believed to have hailed from Lycia, and probably returned there after several unsuccessful invasions of Egypt.

    PELESHET These are the Philistines who settled in the southern coast of Canaan and established the pentapolis of Gaza, Gath, Ekron, Ashkelon and Ashdod. They may have invaded Canaan originally in alliance with the Israelites, who settled in the inland areas, but any collegiality quickly disappeared if Biblical records are anything to go by. The name Palestine, given to Judea by the Romans after the Jewish Wars, is believed to be derived from Philistine, although some scholars have suggested that it actually (ironically) comes from a derogatory Greek epithet for Jew.

    SHARDANA Formerly, it was thought that this people migrated out of the Hellenic region, crossed the central Mediterranean, and conquered Sardinia, which still bears a variant of their name. Recently though, it has been suggested that the migration was in the opposite direction - that they were aboriginal inhabitants of Sardinia who traveled eastward into the Hellenic littoral.

    TJEKER / SHEKELESH The Tjeker are of uncertain origin, but they raided Egypt repeatedly before settling in northern Canaan. They may originally have been the Teucri, a tribe inhabiting northwest Anatolia around Troy. They conquered the city-state of Dor and turned it into a Tjeker kingdom. They are one of the few of the Sea Peoples for whom a ruler's name is recorded - in the papyrus account of Wenamun, an Egyptian priest...

    · Beder (Prince of Dor)........................mid 1000's BCE ?

    · Dor fell to King David of Israel in the 990's, and the Tjeker are not mentioned after that date.

    Besides the Dorite Tjeker, some scholars believe that the Tjeker may have been connected in some way with the Israelite tribe of Menasseh.

    TYRSENNOI May be related to the Etruscans, since their name is similar to Tyrrhennoi, the Etruscans' name for themselves (hence the Tyrrhian sea).

    WESHESH Their origins are unknown, though there is some evidence that they may have come from the area of Caria. Some have theorized that they, like the Danya, became part of the Israelite confederacy (as the tribe of Asher).

    TEMMIKES A barbarian tribe living in Boeotia before the Cadmians and the Boeotians. They came to Boeotia along with the Aones, Leleges, and Yandes.

    THESPROTIANS Their region was called Thesprotia. Nowadays Thesprotia is one of the 52 administrative division (nomoi) of Greece (capital-city: Preveza). They lived in Epirus between the Amvrikikos Bay and the Kalamas river and between Pindos mountains and the Ionian Sea.

    The first inhabitants....................................... ..........Early Bronze Age
    Beginning of the middle Hellenic period the region had been inhabited by the tribes of Elopes, Greacians, Kassopaeoi, Dryopes, Dononians. They moved and colonized afterwards Ithaca, Leucas, Akarnania
    Partial colonization of Thessaly and S.Greece 12th-11th cent.
    Thesprotos
    Kallidice
    Isolated until appr. 730 BCE
    South Thesprotia was occupied by Eleans 7th cent.
    Allied to Corinth................................. ? -5th cent.
    Allied to Athens and the kingdom of Molossoi.......415-404
    Occupation of Kassopaea, Dodoni, East Thesprotia by Molossoi after 400 BCE
    To the 2nd Athenian league.........................375-c. 350
    The Thesprotian League middle 4th cent. (cap-city: Elea, afterwards Titane)
    To Macedonia.......................................34 3-300
    To the League of Molossoi..............................300
    To Macedonia.......................................30 0-220
    To the Epirote League..............................220-167
    To Epirus............................................ ..167
    The Thesprotian League........................167-148
    Assigned as a district of Macedonia within Rome....148-27
    Assigned as a district of Achaea within the Roman Empire from 27 BCE
    The Thesprotians were divided into many sub-tribes: Aegestaeoi, Dodonians, Eleaeoi, Elinoi, Ephyroi, Ikadotoi, Kartatoi, Kestrinoi, Klauthrioi, Kropioi, Larissaeoi, Onopernoi, Opatoi, Tiaeoi, Torydaeoi, Fanoteis, Farganaeoi, Fylates, Chimerioi.
    Their main cities were Ephyra, Chimerion and Torine.

    VISALTES They lived in Macedonia, east of the Mygdonia region, between the Volvi lake and the Strymonas river
    Their cities were: Verge, Euporia, Kalliteres, Oreskia, Visaltia (capital-city). Before the 5th cent. Visaltie and Kristonia had a common history

    Mosses..........................................c. 500-480
    Demetrius......................................... .fl. c. 450
    Vastareas......................................... .....c. 350
    To Macedonia..............................4th cent. to 179
    Part of Mygdonian territory (within Macedon and then Rome) from 179...
    VISTONES They lived in the Rhodopi district to the Aegean sea, near Abdera. Their land was called Vistonea and it was between the Kikones and the Sapes regions.

    Vistonas
    Orpheus
    Diomedes (during the Trojan war)
    YANDES Proto-Hellenic tribe inhabiting Boeotia alongside the Aones, Leleges, and Temmikes. They lived near Thebes, and in later times colonized East Phocis (building the city of Yambolis), West Locris, and Aetolia.

    ps. Me falni qe pertova t'i perkthej ne shqip, duke menduar se debatuesit e njohin gjuhen angleze dhe do dine t'i perdorin keto te dhena si argumente interesante ne kete teme qe shpresoj te mos prishet nga niveli i ulet i postimeve, por perkundrazi...
    Ndryshuar pėr herė tė fundit nga ash : 11-06-2006 mė 16:49
    gone with the wind...

  15. #15
    Mjedisor Maska e Edvin83
    Anėtarėsuar
    20-03-2006
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    Tallinn
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    4,671
    Citim Postuar mė parė nga Cyclotomic
    Edhe "Greket" me njeri tjetrin ne lufte ishin, sidomos ata qe ja kishin kunjen Spartes. Po si perfundim te "gjithe" "greke" u quajten. Si e shpjegon zoteria juaj kete gje ?

    Cfare gjuhe flitnin Dardanet, Maqedonet dhe Iliret ? Si merreshe vesh Aleksandri me ushtaret e tij ?
    Aleksandri nuk ishte ilir, nena e tij ishte nga fiset ilire kurse babai i tij Filipi ishte maqedon. Pse duhej qe iliret, dardanet te flsinin me maqedonet nuk e kuptoj?
    Une po te jap nmje teori tjeter, Maqedonasit ishin Ilire dhe jo Iliret Maqedone

  16. #16
    Mjedisor Maska e Edvin83
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    20-03-2006
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    JA dhe nje harte tjeter qe t'ua bej te qarte se ku shtirhet Iliria.
    Sa per Doriant, ata jane fis ilir qe erdhi nga veriu dhe formuan Greqine, dhe ishin shume te ngjashem me Dardanet, me kete mund te shpjegohet edhe numri i madh i fjaleve shqipe ne greqishten e vjeter dhe fjale te ngjashme me greqishten dhe gegerishten e sotshme.
    Fotografitė e Bashkėngjitura Fotografitė e Bashkėngjitura  

  17. #17
    burnt... Maska e ash
    Anėtarėsuar
    05-12-2005
    Postime
    103

    Dropullitet le te lexojne ketu:

    Achaeans versus Illyrian Dorians


    Greeks were not the first perpetrators to design a device that could eventuate in stealing historical events and twist the accounts of other people. Among the most despicable acts of theft has been the masterminded plan to plagiarize the Iliad. What would be considered a translation in modern times, was permissible rendering of Illyrian mythological elements into Greek official ideology. The custom of depriving subjugated people of their own gods was practiced from the dawn of civilizations. The invaders would often adopt the gods of the conquered slaves in order to break their spirit and erase their memories. Yet no other invaders apart from Greeks has ever stolen the whole mythology of another people. Not only Greeks stole the Iliad from Illyria but they even changed their own name from Greek into Helens 'people of the sun'. Why did Greeks escape unnoticed for their transgression? The Roman invasion of Illyria the distraction of Illyrian royal records and libraries made the Greek theft invisible. Unable to deal with the rising power of Illyria, weakened Greek city states invited Rome to destroy their annoying Illyrians and only after the fall of the culturally superior neighbors did Greeks change the name into Helens. The acceptance of the name Helen was not an indiscriminate act of surrender before the falsification of history. The very seeds of Greek civilization did not share the same genetic make up. The so-called Dark Ages of Greece, the pouring of Dorian tribes in Peloponnesus was actually an act of retribution for the distraction of Troy. Hence Achaeans finally paid a heavy price for destroying the Illyrian colonies in Asia Minor. The creation of Homeric songs and their impact on Greek psyche corresponded to the destruction of Mycenaean civilization in Greece by Dorian tribes. But were Dorian people Greek by descent? The names of Dorian chieftains show that their origin was actually northern Illyrian where they rushed forth towards Greece. Among Hylleis, Pamphyloi, and the Dymanes, the name of Hylleis (alb. hyllus 'star, sun') is not Greek at all while Dymanes is typically Illyrian, similar to Dymalus : 'two mountains'. Illyrian dynasties used to add the numbers dy- 'two', tri- 'three' in front of their names to symbolize the unique royal line of succession. The method of naming the leaders according to the royal parentage was typical of ancient monarchies. Because Greek people were actually a mixture of invading Achaeans and liberating Dorians the name Helen was considered to be a restoration of 'people of the sun' in their native land. Despite of common Indo European origin Achaean and Dorian were two different cultures. Not only language was different but even the architecture and burial customs were not the same. In the list of Hellenic tribes and cities, Illyrian names can be detected easily.



    Nese ndonjeri eshte i ngeshem i lutem ta perktheje ne shqip, perndryshe do e perkthej vete sapo te kem pak kohe te lire.
    Ndryshuar pėr herė tė fundit nga ash : 11-06-2006 mė 19:16
    gone with the wind...

  18. #18
    i/e regjistruar Maska e gladiator
    Anėtarėsuar
    12-02-2003
    Vendndodhja
    Iliria
    Postime
    217
    Teoria e Dorianve te qenit Ilire nuk mund te jete e vertete per vete faktin se fiset Doriane ne Greqi - Sparta, Argosi, etj, ishin krejt ndryshe jo vetem nga Iliret, por edhe nga Maqedonet dhe Epirotet qe ishin ne kufij me Greket. Gjuha, zakonet, organizimi politik, Greket i kishin krejt ndryshe nga Shqiptaret e lashte- Maqedonet, Dardanet, Iliret dhe Epirotet. Kurse fiiset para Doriane ne Greqi - Akajsit dhe Danaet, kishin shume gjera te perbashketa me Shqiptaret e lashte, dhe me fiset Pellazge te Azis Minore - Trojanet, Frygjian, etj.
    Mendimi im eshte se Akajsit e Homerit ishin Pellazge, te cilet luftuan kunder Pellazgeve te tjere ne Azi per supremaci territoriale.
    Homeri nuk ben ndonje dallim racial midis Trojaneve dhe Akejve, bile sipas tij te dy popujt flisnin nje gjuhe, ngaqe luftetaret e dy paleve nuk bizedonin me perkthyes para ndeshjes. Dialogu Akilit dhe Hektorit eshte i famshem, dhe ai i Diomedit dhe Glaukut, te cilet ne fund dolen miq.
    Nje fakt tjeter eshte se nqs Akejsit ishin Greke, athere si ka mundesi qe Greket nuk e kolonizuan atehere Trojen, por pasi e dogjen ata u kthyen ne Evrope vetem te shkaterrohen nga Dorianet pak me vone. Greket e pare te duken ne brigjet e Trojes ishin Jonet dhe Aolet 400 vjet pas luftes se Trojes.
    Pra, opinioni im eshte se Akejsit e Homerit ishin Pellazge te cilet u larguan nga tokat e tyre prej fiseve Greke - Dorianet, Aetolet, Ionet, etj. Keta si duket erdhen nga drejtimi Thrakias dhe nuk eshte cudi qe te dy popujt te ken ardh ne te njejten kohe ne Ballkan: ne shekullin e 12 PK, pak kohe pas luftes se Trojes, dhe jo sic mendohet ne shek 15 PK.
    Sigurisht kjo teori nuk do u pelqente Grekeve sepse ata me Iliaden mburren, por faktet historike nuk gabojne.

  19. #19
    DIZER_7 Maska e dizer7
    Anėtarėsuar
    24-05-2006
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    EARTH
    Mosha
    41
    Postime
    176
    O patriota, populli ka nevoje per krenari dhe per besim ne vetvete.
    Jemi pasardhes te ILIREVE.Historia jone eshte e adhrueshme nga gjithe bota.
    duhet ta pasurojme dhe ta mbrojme.kush e ve ne dyshim nuk e eshte Shqipetar i vertete,por tradhtar.
    Tani sa per ato "te vervteta" qe shtroni ju,mbani mend nje gjejersa nuk jeni
    historjan,mos beni sikur i dini te gjitha.
    flisni me mirkuptim dhe me deshiren per ti dhene historise shqiptare shkelqimin qe i takon dhe qe i ka munguar deri me sot.



    DEPARTMENT OF UNITED STATES OF ALBANIA

  20. #20
    Mjedisor Maska e Edvin83
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    20-03-2006
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    4,671
    Qe jemi pasardhes te ilireve kjo vertetohet vetem duke u nisur nga emri
    ILIR=i lirė, dardan=dardhan, po maqedon ca do te thote valle? Pse ky emer nuk eshte ne shqip dhe cfare argumenti na jep gladiatori per kete? Mos valle Macedon do te thote do mace?

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