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  1. #41
    i/e regjistruar Maska e friendlyboy1
    Anėtarėsuar
    25-06-2002
    Postime
    769
    Mos ja fut kot robo se ato fakte jan dokumentuar. Kur e vizitoi per her te par gjeneral Eisenhouer nje nga kampet e perqendrimint nazist, ku pjesa dermuese e te denuarve ishin jewish, tha qe te sillni sa me shum njerez nga ane mban qe ta shofin ca ka ndodhur ketu sepse do vij nje dit dhe do dali njeri si puna jote qe do thot holokausti nuk ndodhi kurr. Vetem budapesti ishte 25% cifut varshava me shum e gjithato qytete ne gjermani. dhe ne fund i numroje me gishta. Prandaj kur nuk te nderq as te prish pun me mir qendro me te verteten.

  2. #42
    Bogdan Chmielnicki Maska e antares
    Anėtarėsuar
    19-08-2004
    Vendndodhja
    Ukraine
    Postime
    880
    Toro! Sic te thoshte parafolesi, ben mire te lexosh pak me shume dhe te ekspozohesh pak me pak.
    E para: Ruset jane arjane ashtu si edhe palestinezet dhe arabet ne pergjithesi jane semite.
    Ty mund te te duket e cuditeshme po dhe indianet e perset (iranianet) jane ariane gjithashtu.
    E dyta: Une nuk ankohem se pse cifutet dominojne ameriken e nje pjese te madhe te botes, po thjesht konstatoj dhe kerkoj (akademikisht) te kuptoj se pse dhe si erdhi kjo.
    E treta: Argumnti yt per te ashtuquajturin "kontradiksion" ne llogjiken time se nje "shtet i suksesshem" si Izraeli eshte prove per superioritet me ben te te kujtoj se shiriti i derrit i cili me shume sukses fryhet ne zorret e viktimave nuk ka te ngjare te konsiderohet superior ndaj bujtesit megjithese bujtesi mund te jete katandisur kocke e lekure!
    E katerta: Ne zoologji ka shume raste kur agresori (sidomos kur eshte me i dobet e me i ulet) i injekton lende gjumesjellese dhe analgjezike viktimes per ta patur me te lehte per ti pire gjakun! Nuk ndryshon shume kjo edhe nga perralla e 6 miljoneve qe sherben si shantazh moral dhe gjenerator ndjenjash (te pajustifikuara sigurisht) faji per viktimen para se ti rrjepe lekuren (ne sensin financiar)!
    Nuk po zgjatem me se e di qe eshte e kote ti mbush mendjen nje individi te cilit ja kane bere njehere lavazhin total te trurit.
    P.S. Ne pergjigje te deklarates se nje parlamentari nga Zelanda e Re qe sterperseritja e perralles se 6 miljoneve i sillte zorret te goja, shedi i Qendres Vizental me Izrael hodhi idene se te gjithe ata qe kane veshtiresi apo neveri per te gelltitur perrallen cifute te 6 miljonshit kane nevoje per trajtim urgjent psikiatrik!
    A te kujton gje kjo Toro?
    "The United States appear to be destined by Providence to plague America with misery in the name of liberty"
    -Simón Bolķvar

  3. #43
    titulli i tanishėm
    Anėtarėsuar
    15-02-2005
    Postime
    59
    plaku tha: feja e holokaustit iu ushqehet ēdo mėngjes me drithra e me vezė tė skuqur
    un thash: ēar thu or plak, akoma ti
    plaku vazhdoi: ēdo muaj del nga njė film qė s'ka lidhje fare me fenė e holokaustit por qė mes tij pėrmenden "pa dashur" mėsime tė fesė sė holokaustit
    un thash: plak qetėsohu
    plaku bėri shurdhin: unė jam ateist tha, merrem me shkencat ekzakte jo me fetė, megjithėse ma ofruan dhe mua postin e evangjelistit tė fesė sė re, por nuk pranova dhe mbetėn pa punė deri dhe nipėrit e mi
    un thash: ngushllime plak, je pėr njė raki

    .
    Ndryshuar pėr herė tė fundit nga Liquid : 12-04-2005 mė 02:13 Arsyeja: qerasa plakun me raki

  4. #44
    heretic Crusoe Maska e darwin
    Anėtarėsuar
    25-08-2004
    Vendndodhja
    under the microscope
    Postime
    1,918
    Citim Postuar mė parė nga Toro
    Sa per "arjan", mos ja fut kot, se shqiptaret nuk jane popull arian. Dhe kjo ne kuptimin neoracist te fjales Arian- sipas llogjikes qe pasqyrohet neper faqet e librat e Arian Nations.

    Ti mund ta quash veten arian , sepse sipas mendjes tende, Hitleri qe propagandonte per pasterti race te la te formoje nje divizion te qelbur SS. "Harron" se te tilla leje per divizione ariane ua dha dhe ....ruseve dhe ....serbeve dhe ....hungarezeve....etj popujve "jo ariane". Madje dhe legjion indianesh kishte ne rradhet ariane te Waffen SS!!!!!
    Cfare dmth arian sipas perkufizimit tend? Po shoh qe qenka zbuluar si term me formimin e reparteve luftarake te Waffen SS ne Luften e II boterore. Cfare divizionesh SS kane patur serbet (sinqerisht me bere kurioz)?
    "Prinz Eugen" ka vepruar ne Serbi po ka lidhje vetem gjeografike, JO etnike!


    Po kishte dhe legjione turkemenesh e kozakesh....dicka shume te larget me pastertine e races "ariane" sipas propagandes hitleriane.

    Te betohem qe nuk e ke fare idene se per cfare flet! Waffen SS ka patur dhe indiane, por sepse Waffen SS luftonin per permbushjen e ideologjise Nacional Socialiste qe nuk ishte e aplikueshme vetem per "Arianitet".. Savitri Devin e ke degjuar ndonjehere?

    A mund te me thuash se perse gjermanet nuk u moren me popullsine E NGJYROSUR te Afrikes veriore gjate operacioneve luftarake te viteve 1941-1943? A ke lexuar per ndonje rast abuzimi te tyre me jeten e banoreve vendas (algjeriane, tuniziane, libiane, egjiptiane...)? Afermendsh duhet t'e kishin shfarosur shumicen, sepse me ngjyre.. keshtu?



    Ti mund ti konsiderosh cifutet si "minj haleje", njekoheshisht duke u qare se si keta "inferioret" kane mundur te krijojne nje shtet shume me te fuqishem e me te begate sesa atdheu yne dhe ne kundershtim me ne qe i kemi lidhur shpresat se mos na ndihmoje Amerika e Evropa, u tundin dhembet 200 milione arabeve.

    Nuk besoj se je kaq naiv! shifra 6 milione (qe nuk po shoh ta argumentosh gjekundi!) i ka kushtuar ish-Gjermanise Perendimore rreth 150 miliarde dollare (me kursin e asaj kohe!). Kurse per ShBA kjo shifer eshte disa here me e larte. Neser do te bashkengjis nje skedar te The Christians Science Monitor, (aspak faqe ultra-ariane, apo jo?), ku mund te shikosh nje analize te detajuar te autoriteteve te krishtera lidhur me koston e Izraelit ne buxhetin amerikan. Kjo ja vlen dhe per ty Labeat!! Dhe sigurisht, qe te derdhen qindra miliarde dollare ne nje vend, besoj se dhe hajdute si Tosi e Caci do te ishin velur dhe zene karar, dhe me se fundi vendi do te kishte bere prokopi.


    Jane tipa si ty, ata qe qahen, se si cifutet kontrollojne Ameriken(!!!!) dhe madje kane kurdisur kurthe e komplote per te qeverisur boten!!!! Per hatrin e tyre na qenkeshin bere luftera boterore e jane "shpikur" Holokauste per tu marre parate dynjase akoma dhe mbas 60 vjeteve!!!!

    Kjo e puna e parave eshte e nje rendesie dytesore. E para fare eshte se holokausti eshte e vetmja arsye morale qe mban ne kembe shtetin e Izraelit, sepse ti mundohu sa te duash per ato ligjore.. ato nuk ekzistojne!! Ah po, jane dhe ato fetare ku zoti i tha Abrahanit dhe Moisiut gojarisht se Izraeli eshte toka e tyre dhe do te jete perjetesisht. Tani, problemi eshte se ka mosbesues te pandreqshem si puna ime, qe po nuk paraqite kaseten me zerin autentik te Jehovahut vete, nuk te pijne uje me asnje vend keto llogjika, dhe besome se ligjet i di mire (pavaresisht se mund te vesh doren ne bibel dhe te betohesh se do thuash vetem te verteten, provo e thuaju gjykatesit dhe anetareve te jurise "keshtu me tha zoti!".

    Tani meqe po lexoj dhe te dyten. Cfare di ti rreth ngjarjes me bankat zvicerane (qe ka ndodhur jo shume kohe me pare dhe eshte e fresket)?


    Pra ti inferioritetin tend, nese keto qe beson ti jane te verteta, e tregon me vepra. Me vepra sepse nuk ke nje shtet , megjithese ke fituar pavaresine nja 30 vjet me pare se cifutet. E tregon inferioritetin tend me vepra, sepse ndersa qahesh se cifutet kontrollojne bankat e botes dhe mediat boterore, ti ( dhe une bashke me ty) jemi katandisur doormenat dhe superat e Amerikes, ndersa te tjere pimpat dhe tregetaret e droges se Evropes.

    E tregon inferioritetin tend, duke akuzuar te tjeret se nuk te lene te ikesh perpara, por nuk shikon pazotesine tende.

    Je ti pra ai qe i ben me superiore cifutet, me ato "teorite e konspiracionit" se ata qeverisin boten!


    uuuu... me keto fjale do te merrem gjeresisht me vone . Te rrish pa merak Toro.

    me te mira
    Prektora

  5. #45
    i/e regjistruar Maska e friendlyboy1
    Anėtarėsuar
    25-06-2002
    Postime
    769
    Pse kan jewish kaq shum influenc ne bot? Arsyeja eshte shum e thjesht. Historikisht dihet qe ne mesjet jewish ishin "merchants" tregtar qe benin fitime nga shitja dhe blerja e mallrave. Kjo gje qe sot e quajm tregti ne mesjet ishte nje herezi per te krishteret pra ishte nje mekat i madh nje damk e madhe mbi familjet e krishtera po tja jepnin shpirtin paras dhe jo zotit. Cifutet nuk besonin ne krisht dhe nuk kishin asgje perte humbur nese merreshin me tregti keshtu qe ishin keta "njerzit e djallit" qe do shkonin ne ferr gjithsesi qe merreshin me tregti. Kur filloi rilindja ne europ dhe ekonomia tregtia e shkenca i zhvilluan shum cifutet kishin qindra vjet me shum eksperienc me shum ne tregti se te krishteret dhe keshtu qe e kishin me te leht te ambjentoheshin me kushtet e reja te kapitalizmit. Kjo i dha nje avantazh te madh mbi te tjeret dhe sot u jep influenc ne bot. JO se me behet von shum por keto jan faktet e historis njerzore.

  6. #46
    i/e regjistruar Maska e R2T
    Anėtarėsuar
    18-04-2003
    Postime
    1,061
    Duke qene se Toro nuk do me ktheje pergjigje per pyetjet e ngritura (Rikujtoj qe temen e hapi vete Toro, po me kete qellim diskutimin e numrit) po kaloj tek disa pika te tjera qe kam vene re ne forum dhe me pare

    Citim Postuar mė parė nga antares
    Toro! Sic te thoshte parafolesi, ben mire te lexosh pak me shume dhe te ekspozohesh pak me pak.
    E para: Ruset jane arjane ashtu si edhe palestinezet dhe arabet ne pergjithesi jane semite.
    Ruset nuk jane Arjane. Sllavet ashtu si cifutet, arabet dhe zezaket jane nen-humane. Sllavet jane Barbare, per kete u konsideruan si nen-humane.
    Postimi i mesiperm nuk shpreh detyrimisht opinionin e autorit mbi temen e ngritur.

  7. #47
    Dash...me kembore Maska e Toro
    Anėtarėsuar
    26-04-2002
    Vendndodhja
    CALIFORNIA
    Postime
    1,404
    Citim Postuar mė parė nga R2T
    Duke qene se Toro nuk do me ktheje pergjigje per pyetjet e ngritura (Rikujtoj qe temen e hapi vete Toro, po me kete qellim diskutimin e numrit) po kaloj tek disa pika te tjera qe kam vene re ne forum dhe me pare


    Ruset nuk jane Arjane. Sllavet ashtu si cifutet, arabet dhe zezaket jane nen-humane. Sllavet jane Barbare, per kete u konsideruan si nen-humane.
    R2T, ke te drejte, por materiali qe kam do perkthyer ( meqe jemi ne forum shqiptar). Meqe e kerkon pergjigjen menjehere ( ne fakt materialet jane shume voluminoze dhe jane pergjigje jo per nje apo dy, por per 66 pyetje), po ti postoj ne anglisht. Njekohesisht, nese e sheh me interes mund te hapesh nje teme te re ne lidhje me ceshtjen e pastertise se races, se cilet jane arianet etj.


    1. What proof exists that the Nazis practiced genocide or deliberately killed six million Jews?

    The IHR says (original, Samisdat, and revised versions combined):


    None. The only evidence is the postwar testimony of individual "survivors." This testimony is contradictory, and no "survivor" claims to have actually witnessed any gassing. There are no contemporaneous documents and no hard evidence whatsoever: no mounds of ashes, no crematoria capable of disposing of millions of corpses, no piles of clothes, no human soap, no lamp shades made of human skin, no records, no credible demographic statistics.

    Let's look at their claims one at a time:

    Supposedly the only evidence, "the postwar testimony of individual survivors."

    First of all, consider the implicit conspiracy theory. Notice how the testimony of every single inmate of every Nazi camp is automatically dismissed as unconvincing. This total dismissal of inmates' testimony, along with the equally-total dismissal of the Nazis' own testimony (!), is the largest unspoken assumption of Holocaust-denial.

    This assumption, which is not often spelled out, is that the attempted Jewish genocide never took place, but rather that a secret conspiracy of Jews, starting around 1941, planted and forged myriad documents to prove that it did; then, after the war, they rounded up all the camp survivors and told them what to say.

    The conspirators also supposedly managed to torture hundreds of key Nazis into confessing to crimes which they never committed, or into framing their fellow Nazis for those crimes, and to plant hundreds of documents in Nazi files which were never discovered until after the war, and only then, in many cases, by sheer luck. Goebbels' diary, for example, was barely rescued from being sold as 7,000 pages of scrap paper, but buried in the scattered manuscript were several telling entries (as translated in Lochner, The Goebbels Diaries, 1948, pp. 86, 147-148):


    February 14, 1942: The Führer once again expressed his determination to clean up the Jews in Europe pitilessly. There must be no squeamish sentimentalism about it. The Jews have deserved the catastrophe that has now overtaken them. Their destruction will go hand in hand with the destruction of our enemies. We must hasten this process with cold ruthlessness.

    March 27, 1942: The procedure is a pretty barbaric one and not to be described here more definitely. Not much will remain of the Jews. On the whole it can be said that about 60 per cent of them will have to be liquidated whereas only 40 per cent can be used for forced labor.

    Michael Shermer has pointed out that the Nazis' own estimate of the number of European Jews was eleven million, and sixty percent of eleven million is 6.6 million. This is fairly close to the actual figure. (Actually, forty percent was a serious overestimate of the survival rate of Jews who were captured, but there were many Jews who escaped.)

    In any case, most of the diary is quite mundane, and interesting only to historians. Did the supposed Jewish conspiracy forge seven thousand pages to insert just a few lines? How did they manage to know Goebbels' affairs intimately enough to avoid contradictions, e.g. putting him or his associates in the wrong city at the wrong date?

    As even the revisionist David Cole has admitted, revisionists have yet to provide a satisfactory explanation of this document.

    Regarding postwar testimony from Nazis, were they all tortured into confessing to heinous crimes which they supposedly did not commit? This might be believable if only a few Nazis were captured after the war, or maybe if some had courageously stood up in court and shouted to the world about the supposed attempt to silence them. But hundreds testified regarding the Holocaust, in trials dating from late 1945 until the 1960s.

    Many of these Nazis testified as witnesses and were not accused of crimes. What was the basis for their supposed coercion?

    Many of these trials were in German courts. Did the Germans torture their own countrymen? Well, Holocaust-deniers sometimes claim that the Jews have secretly infiltrated the German government and control everything about it. They prefer not to talk too much about this theory, however, because it is clearly on the lunatic fringe.

    The main point is that not one of these supposed torture victims -- in fifty years, not one -- has come forth to support the claim that testimony was coerced.

    On the contrary, confirmation and reconfirmation of their testimony has continued across the years. What coercion could have convinced Judge Konrad Morgen to testify to the crimes he witnessed at the International Nuremberg Trial in 1946, where he was not accused of any crime? And to later testify at the Auschwitz trial at Frankfurt, Germany, in 1963-65? What coercion was applied to SS Doctor Johann Kremer to make him testify in his own defense in 1947, and then, after having been convicted in both Poland and Germany, emerge after his release to testify again as a witness at the Frankfurt trial? What coercion was applied to Böck, Gerhard Hess, Hölblinger, Storch, and Wiebeck, all former SS men, all witnesses at Frankfurt, none accused of any crime there?

    Holocaust-deniers point to small discrepancies in testimonies to try to discredit them. The assumption, unstated, is that the reader will accept minor discrepancies as evidence of a vast, over-reaching Jewish conspiracy. This is clearly ludicrous.

    In fact, the discrepancies and minor errors in detail argue against, not for, the conspiracy theory. Why would the conspirators have given different information to different Nazis? In fact, if all the testimonies, from the Nazis' to the inmates', sounded too similar, it is certain that the Holocaust-deniers would cite that as evidence of a conspiracy.

    What supposed coercion could reach across four decades, to force former SS-Untersturmführer Dr. Hans Münch to give an interview, against the will of his family, on Swedish television? In the 1981 interview, he talked about Auschwitz:


    Interviewer: Isn't the ideology of extermination contrary to a doctor's ethical values?

    Münch: Yes, absolutely. There is no discussion. But I lived in that environment, and I tried in every possible way to avoid accepting it, but I had to live with it. What else could I have done? And I wasn't confronted with it directly until the order came that I and my superior and another one had to take part in the exterminations since the camp's doctors were overloaded and couldn't cope with it.

    Interviewer: I must ask something. Doubters claim that "special treatment" could mean anything. It didn't have to be extermination.

    Münch: "Special treatment" in the terminology of the concentration camp means physical extermination. If it was a question of more than a few people, where nothing else than gassing them was worthwhile, they were gassed.

    Interviewer: "Special treatment" was gassing?

    Münch: Yes, absolutely.

    And what supposed coercion could reach across four decades, to force former SS-Unterscharführer Franz Suchomel into giving an interview for the film Shoah? Speaking under (false) promises of anonymity, he told of the crimes committed at the Treblinka death camp (from the book Shoah, Claude Lanzmann, 1985, p. 54):


    Interviewer: You are a very important eyewitness, and you can explain what Treblinka was.

    Suchomel: But don't use my name.

    Interviewer: No, I promised. All right, you've arrived at Treblinka.

    Suchomel: So Stadie, the sarge, showed us the camps from end to end. Just as we went by, they were opening the gas-chamber doors, and people fell out like potatoes. Naturally, that horrified and appalled us. We went back and sat down on our suitcases and cried like old women.

    Each day one hundred Jews were chosen to drag the corpses to the mass graves. In the evening the Ukrainians drove those Jews into the gas chambers or shot them. Every day!

    Ask the deniers why they shrug off the testimony of Franz Suchomel. Greg Raven will tell you that "it is not evidence...bring me some evidence, please." Others will tell you that Suchomel and Münch were crazy, or hallucinating, or fantasizing.

    But the fantasy is obviously in the minds of those who choose to ignore the mass of evidence and believe instead in a hypothetical conspiracy, supported by nothing but their imaginations.

    That total lack of evidence is why the "conspiracy assumption" almost always remains an unspoken assumption. To our knowledge, there has not been one single solitary "revisionist" paper, article, speech, pamphlet, book, audiotape, videotape, or newsletter which provides any details about this supposed Jewish/Zionist conspiracy which did all the dirty work. Not one.

    At best, the denial literature makes veiled references to the World Jewish Congress perpetuating a "hoax" (in Butz 1976) -- no details are provided. Yet the entire case of Holocaust-denial rests on this supposed conspiracy.

    As for the testimony of the survivors, which the "revisionists" claim is the only evidence, there are indeed numerous testimonies to gassings and other forms of atrocities, from Jewish inmates who survived the camps, and also from other inmates like POWs. Many of the prisoners that testified about the gassing are not Jewish, of course. Look for instance at the testimony of Polish officer Zenon Rozansky about the first homicidal gassing in Auschwitz, in which 850 Russian POWs were gassed to death, in Reitlinger, The Final Solution, p. 154:


    Those who were propped against the door leant with a curious stiffness and then fell right at our feet, striking their faces hard against the concrete floor. Corpses! Corpses standing bolt upright and filling the entire corridor of the bunker, till they were packed so tight that it was impossible for more to fall.

    Which of the "revisionists" will deny this? Which of them was there? Which of them has the authority to tell Rozansky what he did or did not see?

    The statement that "no 'survivor' claims to have actually witnessed any gassing" is clearly false; this was changed to "few survivors" in later versions, which is close to the truth.

    But we do not need to rely solely on testimony, from the survivors, Nazis, or otherwise. Many wartime documents, not postwar descriptions, specifically regarding gassings and other atrocities, were seized by the U.S. armed forces. Most are in the National Archives in Washington, D.C.; some are in Germany.

    Regarding the gassing vans, precursors to the gas chambers, we find, for example, a top secret document from SS Untersturmführer Becker to SS Obersturmbannführer Rauff (from Nazi Conspiracy and Aggression, 1946, Vol. I, pp. 999-1001):


    If it has rained for instance for only one half hour, the van cannot be used because it simply skids away. It can only be used in absolutely dry weather. It is only a question now whether the van can only be used standing at the place of execution. First the van has to be brought to that place, which is possible only in good weather. ...

    The application of gas usually is not undertaken correctly. In order to come to an end as fast as possible, the driver presses the accelerator to the fullest extent. By doing that the persons to be executed suffer death from suffocation and not death by dozing off as was planned. My directions now have proved that by correct adjustment of the levers death comes faster and the prisoners fall asleep peacefully.

    And Just wrote of the gas vans to Rauff, on June 5, 1942, in a letter marked both "top secret" and "only copy". This is a horrific masterpiece of Nazi double-talk, referring to killing as "processing" and the victims as "subjects" and "the load." (See Kogon, Nazi Mass Murder, 1993, pp. 228-235.)


    Since December 1941, for example, 97,000 were processed using three vans, without any faults occurring in the vehicles. ...

    The normal capacity of the vans is nine to ten per square meter. The capacity of the larger special Saurer vans is not so great. The problem is not one of overloading but of off-road maneuverability on all terrains, which is severely diminished in this van. It would appear that a reduction in the cargo area is necessary. This can be achieved by shortening the compartment by about one meter. The problem cannot be solved by merely reducing the number of subject treated, as has been done so far. For in this case a longer running time is required, as the empty space also needs to be filled with CO [the poison exhaust gas]. ...

    Greater protection is needed for the lighting system. The grille should cover the lamps high enough up to make it impossible to break the bulbs. It seems that these lamps are hardly ever turned on, so the users have suggested that they could be done away with. Experience shows, however, that when the back door is closed and it gets dark inside, the load pushes hard against the door. The reason for this is that when it becomes dark inside, the load rushes toward what little light remains. This hampers the locking of the door. It has also been noticed that the noise provoked by the locking of the door is linked to the fear aroused by the darkness.

    Slip-ups occurred in written correspondence regarding the gas chambers themselves, some of which, fortunately, escaped destruction and were found after the war. A memo written to SS man Karl Bischoff on November 27, 1942 describes the gas chamber in Krema II not with the usual mundane name of "Leichenkeller," but rather as the "Sonderkeller" "special cellar."

    And two months later, on January 29, 1943, Bischoff wrote a memo to Kammler, referring to that same chamber as the "Vergasungskeller." (See Gutman, Anatomy of the Auschwitz Death Camp, 1994, pp. 223, 227.) "Vergasungskeller" means exactly what it sounds like: "gassing cellar," an underground gas chamber.

    Holocaust-deniers turn to Arthur Butz, who provides a specious explanation for the Vergasungskeller: "Vergasung," he says, cannot refer to killing people with gas, but only to the process of converting a solid or liquid into gas. Therefore, he says the "Vergasungskeller," must have been a special room where the fuel for the Auschwitz ovens was converted into gas -- a "gasification cellar."

    There are three problems with this explanation. First, "Vergasung" certainly can refer to killing people with gas; Butz does not speak German and he should not try to lecture about the language. Second, there is no room that could possibly serve this function which Butz describes -- years after writing his book, he admitted this, and helplessly suggested that there might be another building somewhere in the camp that might house a gasification cellar. Third, the type of oven used at Auschwitz did not require any gasification process! The ovens burned solid fuel. (See Gutman, op. cit., pp. 184-193.)

    So what does the term "gassing cellar" refer to? Holocaust-deniers have yet to offer any believable explanation.

    An inventory, again captured after the war, revealed fourteen showerheads and one gas-tight door listed for the gas chamber in Krema III. Holocaust-deniers claim that room was a morgue; they do not offer to explain what use a morgue has for showerheads and a gas-tight door. (See a photograph of the document, or Pressac, Auschwitz: Technique and Operation, 1989, pp. 231, 438.)

    A memo from the Auschwitz construction office, dated March 31, 1943, says Hilberg, Documents of Destruction, 1971, pp. 207-208):


    We take this occasion to refer to another order of March 6, 1943, for the delivery of a gas door 100/192 for Leichenkeller 1 of Krema III, Bw 30a, which is to be built in the manner and according to the same measure as the cellar door of the opposite Krema II, with peep hole of double 8 millimeter glass encased in rubber. This order is to be viewed as especially urgent....

    Why would morgues have urgently needed peepholes made out of a double layer of third-of-an-inch-thick glass?

    The question of whether it can be proved that the cyanide gas was used in the Auschwitz gas chambers has intruiged the deniers. Their much-heralded Leuchter Report, for example, expends a great deal of effort on the question of whether traces of cyanide residue remain there today. But we do not need to look for chemical traces to confirm cyanide use (Gutman, op. cit., p. 229):


    Letters and telegrams exchanged on February 11 and 12 [1943] between the Zentralbauleitung and Topf mention a wooden blower for Leichenkeller 1. This reference confirms the use of the morgue as a gas chamber: Bischoff and Prüfer thought that the extraction of air mixed with concentrated prussic acid [cyanide] (20 g per cu m) required a noncorroding ventilator.

    Bischoff and Prüfer turned out to be wrong, and a metal fan ended up working acceptably well. But the fact that they thought it necessary demonstrates that cyanide was to be routinely used in the rooms which deniers call morgues. (Cyanide is useless for disinfecting morgues, as it does not kill bacteria.)

    Other captured documents, even if they don't refer directly to some part of the extermination process, refer to it by implication. A captured memo to SS-Brigadeführer Kammler reveals that the expected incineration capacity of the Auschwitz ovens was a combined total of 4,756 corpses per day (see a photograph of the document or Kogon, op. cit., p. 157).

    Deniers often claim that this total could not be achieved in practice (see question 45). That's not the point. These crematoria were carefully designed, in 1942, to have sufficient capacity to dispose of 140,000 corpses per month -- in a camp that housed only 125,000. We can conclude that massive deaths were predicted, indeed planned-for, as early as mid-1942. A camp designed to incinerate its full capacity of inmates every four weeks is not merely a detention center.

    Finally, apart from the abundant testimonies, confessions, and physical evidence of the extermination process, there is certainly no want of evidence of the Nazis' intentions and plans.

    Here are just a few examples. Hans Frank’s diary (from Nazi Conspiracy and Aggression, 1946, Vol. I, pp. 992, 994):


    But what should be done with the Jews? Do you think they will be settled down in the 'Ostland' [eastern territories], in [resettlement] villages? This is what we were told in Berlin: Why all this bother? We can do nothing with them either in the 'Ostland' nor in the 'Reichkommissariat.' So liquidate them yourself.

    Gentlemen, I must ask you to rid yourself of all feeling of pity. We must annihilate the Jews, wherever we find them and wherever it is possible, in order to maintain the structure of the Reich as a whole. ...

    We cannot shoot or poison these 3,500,000 Jews, but we shall nevertheless be able to take measures, which will lead, somehow, to their annihilation....

    That we sentence 1,200,000 Jews to die of hunger should be noted only marginally.

    Himmler's speech at Posen on October 4, 1943 was captured on audiotape (Trial of the Major War Criminals, 1948, Vol. XXIX, p. 145, trans. by current author):


    I refer now to the evacuation of the Jews, the extermination of the Jewish people. This is one of those things that is easily said: "the Jewish people are being exterminated," says every Party member, "quite true, it's part of our plans, the elimination of the Jews, extermination, we're doing it."

    The extermination effort was even mentioned in at least one official Nazi court verdict. In May 1943, a Munich court wrote in its decision against SS-Untersturmführer Max Taubner that:


    The accused shall not be punished because of the actions against the Jews as such. The Jews have to be exterminated and none of the Jews that were killed is any great loss. Although the accused should have recognized that the extermination of the Jews was the duty of Kommandos which were set up especially for this purpose, he should be excused for considering himself to have the authority to take part in the extermination of Jewry himself.

    AndHitler spoke quite clearly in public on no fewer than three occasions. On January 30, 1939, seven months before Germany invaded Poland, he spoke publicly to the Reichstag (transcribed from Skeptic magazine, Vol. 2, No. 4, p. 50):


    Today I want to be a prophet once more: if international finance Jewry inside and outside of Europe should succeed once more in plunging nations into another world war, the consequence will not be the Bolshevation of the earth and thereby the victory of Jewry, but the annihilation of the Jewish race in Europe.

    By the way, this last phrase is, in German, "die Vernichtung der jüdischen Rasse in Europa," which German-speakers will realize is quite unambiguous.

    In September, 1942:


    ...if Jewry should plot another world war in order to exterminate the Aryan peoples in Europe, it would not be the Aryan people which would be exterminated but Jewry...

    On November 8, 1942:


    You will recall the session of the Reichstag during which I declared: if Jewry should imagine that it could bring about an international world war to exterminate the European races, the result will not be the extermination of the European races, but the extermination of Jewry in Europe. People always laughed about me as a prophet. Of those who laughed then, countless numbers no longer laugh today, and those who still laugh now will perhaps no longer laugh a short time from now.

    There are many other examples of documents and testimonies that could be presented.

    Keep in mind that the IHR#&146;s answer to "what proof exists?" is "none." It has certainly been demonstrated already that this pat answer is totally dishonest. And this is the main point we wish to communicate: that Holocaust-denial is dishonest.

    We continue by analyzing the remaining, more-specific, claims about what evidence supposedly does not exist.

    "No mounds of ashes" is an internal contradiction. In an article in the journal published by the same IHR that publishes these Q&A, the Journal's editor reported that a Polish commission in 1946 found human ash at the Treblinka death camp to a depth of over twenty feet. This article is available on Greg Raven's web site.

    (Apparently some survivors claimed that the corpses were always thoroughly cremated. Because uncremated human remains were mixed with the ash, the editor suggested that the testimonies were false. Amazingly, he had no comment on how a twenty-foot layer of human ashes came to be there in the first place. Perhaps he felt that to be unworthy of mention.)

    There are also piles of ashes at Maidanek. At Auschwitz-Birkenau, ashes from cremated corpses were dumped into the rivers and swamps surrounding the camp, and used as fertilizer for nearby farmers' fields.

    "No crematoria" capable of disposing of millions of corpses? Absolutely false, the crematoria were more than capable of the job, according to both the Nazis' own internal memos and the testimony of survivors. Holocaust-deniers deliberately confuse civilian, funeral-home crematoria with the huge industrial ovens of the death camps. This is discussed in much detail in the replies to questions 42 and 45.

    "No piles of clothes"? Apparently, the IHR considers piles of clothes to be "hard evidence"! This is strange, because they do not deny the other sorts of piles found at Nazi camps: piles of eyeglasses, piles of shoes (at Auschwitz, Belzec, and Maidanek), piles of gold teeth, piles of burned corpses, piles of unburned corpses, piles of artificial limbs (see Swiebocka, Auschwitz: A History in Photographs, 1993, p. 210), piles of human hair (ibid, p. 211), piles of ransacked luggage (ibid, p. 213), piles of shaving-brushes (ibid, p. 215), piles of combs (ibid), piles of pots and pans (ibid), and yes, even the piles of clothes (ibid, p. 214) that the IHR claims do not exist.

    Perhaps the authors of the 66 Q&A realized that it was dangerous for them to admit that these piles were hard evidence, because then they would also be forced to admit a number of other things as "hard evidence." Perhaps this is why they removed this phrase from the revised 66 Q&A.

    If items were not generally found in mass quantities, it is only because the Nazis distributed them to the German population. A memo on this was captured, revealing that they even redistributed women's underwear.

    "No human soap"? This is true, but misleading. Though there is some evidence that soap was made from corpses on a very limited experimental scale, the rumored "mass production" was never done, and no soap made from human corpses is known to exist. However, there is sworn testimony, never refuted, from British POWs and a German army official, stating that soap experiments were performed, and the recipe for the soap was captured by the Allies. To state flatly that the Nazis did not make soap from human beings is incorrect.

    "No lamp shades made of human skin?" False -- lampshades and other human-skin "ornaments" were introduced as evidence in both trials of Ilse Koch, and were shown to a U.S. Senate investigation committee in the late 40s. We know they were made of human skin because they bore tattoos, and because a microscopic forensic analysis of the items was performed. (A detailed page on this is being prepared.)

    "No records"? This is nonsense (which may explain why this claim was removed from the "revised" versions of the 66 Q&A). True, extermination by gassing was always referred to with code-words, and those victims who arrived at death camps only to be immediately gassed were not recorded in any books. But there are slip-ups in the code-word usage that reveal the true meanings, as already described. There are inventories and requisitions for the Krema which reveal items anomalous with ordinary use but perfect for mass homicidal gassing. There are deportation train records which, pieced together, speak clearly. And so on. Several examples have been given above.

    "No credible demographic statistics"? This is the second internal contradiction -- see question 2 and question 15. The Anglo-American committee who studied the issue estimated the number of Jewish victims at 5.7 million. This was based on population statistics. Here is the exact breakdown, country by country:



    Germany - 195,000
    Austria - 53,000
    Czechoslovakia - 255,000
    Denmark - 1,500
    France - 140,000
    Belgium - 57,000
    Luxemburg - 3,000
    Norway - 1,000
    Holland - 120,000
    Italy - 20,000
    Jugoslavia - 64,000
    Greece - 64,000
    Bulgaria - 5,000
    Rumania - 530,000
    Hungary - 200,000
    Poland - 3,271,000
    USSR - 1,050,000

    Less dispersed refugees (308,000)

    Total number of Jews killed 5,721,500
    (This estimate was arrived at using population statistics, and not by adding the number of casualties at each camp. These are also available -- for instance, a separate file with the ruling of a German court regarding the number of victims in Treblinka is available. The SS kept rather accurate records, and many of the documents survived, reinforced by eyewitness accounts).

    Some estimates are lower, some are higher, but this is the magnitude in question. In an article in CMU's student newspaper, the head of CMU's History Department, Peter Stearns, is quoted as saying that newly discovered documents -- especially in the former USSR -- indicate that the number of victims is higher than six million. Other historians claim not much over five million. The Encyclopedia of the Holocaust uses 5,596,000 as a minimum and 5,860,000 as a maximum (Gutman, 1990, p. 1799).

    In summary:

    "Revisionists" often claim, correctly, that the burden of proof is on historians. The proof, of course, has been a matter of public record since late 1945, and is available in libraries around the world. The burden has been met, many, many times over. You've just seen a brief presentation of some of the highlights of that immense body of proof; much more is readily available.

    To even argue that the Holocaust never happened is ludicrous. To claim straight-faced that none of this proof even exists is beyond ludicrous, and it is a clear example of "revisionist" dishonesty.
    "Who is John Galt?"

  8. #48
    heretic Crusoe Maska e darwin
    Anėtarėsuar
    25-08-2004
    Vendndodhja
    under the microscope
    Postime
    1,918

    Post

    Citim Postuar mė parė nga R2T
    Ruset nuk jane Arjane. Sllavet ashtu si cifutet, arabet dhe zezaket jane nen-humane. Sllavet jane Barbare, per kete u konsideruan si nen-humane.
    Per mendimin tim kjo eshte gabim. Termi arian eshte spekullativ dhe eshte perdorur per qellime te ndryshme. Besohet se arianet jane popullsite e bardha te zhvendosura nga lartesite e Iranit Lindor dhe pjeses se siperme te Indise perendimore. Megjithate, ne Rajhun e III sllavet konsideroheshin ariane te dores se trete, por jo barbare. Termin slavische untermenschen thuhet se e ka perdorur i pari Alfred Rosenberg, ideologu kryesor i Rajhut, por gjithsesi ne kategorizimin e arianeve sllavet ishin ne grupin e trete, ne grupin e dyte latinet dhe ne grupin e pare njerezit me origjine gjermanike-nordike. Nuk dihet pse edhe shqiptaret kane qene ne grupin e pare, sepse analizat antropologjike dhe te fenotipeve e percaktonin origjinen e shqiptareve te tipit Alpino-Dinarike me ndonje influence te lehte nordike, por gjithsesi nuk eshte se me vjen keq per kete.


    Citim Postuar mė parė nga Toro
    ... Keep in mind that the IHR#&146;s answer to "what proof exists?" is "none." It has certainly been demonstrated already that this pat answer is totally dishonest. And this is the main point we wish to communicate: that Holocaust-denial is dishonest.
    Verej se kjo eshte pika kryesore ne gjithe kete hartim kaq te gjate (copy+paste), qe zor se ja lexon dhe islamikeve. Ka ardhur puna te dishonesty ?

    ne rregull atehere..


    Citim Postuar mė parė nga Toro
    And Just wrote of the gas vans to Rauff, on June 5, 1942, in a letter marked both "top secret" and "only copy". This is a horrific masterpiece of Nazi double-talk, referring to killing as "processing" and the victims as "subjects" and "the load." (See Kogon, Nazi Mass Murder, 1993, pp. 228-235.)


    Since December 1941, for example, 97 000 were processed using three vans, without any faults occurring in the vehicles. ...
    me fal, si mund te shfarosen 97 000 persona brenda 6 muajve dhe duke perdorur vetem 3 kamione-gazi jam shume kurioz ta mesoj. I lexon keto qe kopjon apo...??

    nejse, lexo pak se si vazhdon me poshte:

    Citim Postuar mė parė nga Toro
    The normal capacity of the vans is nine to ten per square meter. The capacity of the larger special Saurer vans is not so great. The problem is not one of overloading but of off-road maneuverability on all terrains, which is severely diminished in this van. It would appear that a reduction in the cargo area is necessary.

    This can be achieved by shortening the compartment by about one meter.

    The problem cannot be solved by merely reducing the number of subject treated, as has been done so far.

    For in this case a longer running time is required, as the empty space also needs to be filled with CO [the poison exhaust gas].....

    me fal, a mund te me thuash sesi mund te vendosesh 9-10 vete (supozohet te jene te rritur!) brenda nje siperfaqeje prej vetem 1 meter katror? Hehe, une e di shume mire qe gjermanet kane qene fenomenale ne shume pika, po deri ketu eshte e pamundur. Mbase dhe per vete krijesen, me fal - Krijuesin hebraik, Jehovah kjo do te ishte gati e pamundur.

    nejse, edhe kjo mund te te duket e besueshme po vazhdojme me poshte se pjesa qe vijon eshte me tere mend nje humor i klasit te larte.

    "No human soap"? This is true, but misleading. Though there is some evidence that soap was made from corpses on a very limited experimental scale, the rumored "mass production" was never done, and no soap made from human corpses is known to exist. However, there is sworn testimony, never refuted, from British POWs and a German army official, stating that soap experiments were performed, and the recipe for the soap was captured by the Allies. To state flatly that the Nazis did not make soap from human beings is incorrect.


    Kjo po qe ishte madheshtore. E di pse? Sepse duhet te dish se pervec gjyqeve te Nurembergut, jane bere dhe gjyqe te tilla dhe kunder japonezeve. Dhe nqs gjermanet ja hodhen me shprehjen "human soap" ne rastin e japonezeve ndodhi "nje gabim ortografik" dhe ka te denuar qe jane pushkatuar sepse kane perdorur "human soup". Po po, e lexon tamam .. Supe njerezore (?!!). Japonezet jane akuzuar se me trupat e roberve ose ushtareve te vrare amerikane pergatisnin supe me te cilen ushqeheshin ne vaktet e caktuara. Edhe keto akuza jane 4-ciperisht te dokumentuara.
    Nejse, per citimin. Atehere, ne bodrumet e arkives se gjykates qe ne ditet tona njihet me emrin Gjykata e Hages, ndodhet e vetmja vazo e "sapunit njerezor". Interesant eshte fakti qe per analiza jo e jo, po as fotografi nuk lejohet te nxirret. Pse valle?! A nuk do te ishte dhe nje shembull akoma me i qarte pro-6 milione viktimave te Holokaustit?

    Uh, qe te mos humbim kete pjesen me japonezet. Besoj se je ne dijeni te faktit qe edhe qeveria demokratike amerikane e asaj kohe ne vende te caktuara rrethoi me tela te gjithe qytetaret me origjine japoneze (afermendsh, sepse te dy vendet ishin ne lufte). Pyetja ime eshte:

    Ne kampin me famekeq te botes mediatike (them mediatike sepse ne ate reale ka Arkipelag Gulag dhe Laogai - ne kinezce perkthehet "Ne asnje vend" qe jane ku e ku me keq!), Auschwitz-Birkenau a jane lejuar vizitat e komisioneve te kryqit te kuq nderkombtar, dhe sidomos a jane mbajtur procesverbale te cilat ekzistojne sot e kesaj dite ne arkivat e Kryqit te Kuq Nderkombtar ne Gjeneve?? A kane shperndare pako me ushqime dhe medikamente per te burgosurit keto komisione?

    Gjithashtu deshiroj te mesoj, a jane lejuar po keto komisione nga qeveria demokratike amerikane qe te kryenin vizita te ngjashme ne kampet e pushimit per japoneze?


    Citim Postuar mė parė nga Toro
    "No records"? This is nonsense (which may explain why this claim was removed from the "revised" versions of the 66 Q&A). True, extermination by gassing was always referred to with code-words,

    ....and those victims who arrived at death camps only to be immediately gassed were not recorded in any books.

    Ue, vertet shume e besueshme. Sidomos kur behet fjale per burokracine e hekurt shume te njohur te trupave SS, te cilet ishin administratoret e kampeve. Ehu, sa dembele kane qene ata per te mbajtur evidenca te qarta.
    Lol, seriozisht.. autori ka parasysh ndonje kapter pijanec te ish-ushtrise shqiptare ne kete rast?


    Their much-heralded Leuchter Report, for example, expends a great deal of effort on the question of whether traces of cyanide residue remain there today.

    Me fal, a ke marre ndonjehere mundimin ta lexosh kete much-heralded raport te Fred Leuchter? Cfare ka ndodhur me Fred Leuchter mbasi ai publikoi kete raport? Pse Fred Leuchter u dergua te analizoje te supozuara dhoma te gazit? A ishte ai specialisti me i njohur i ndertimeve te dhomave te gazit ne ShBA ne shtetet ku ky denim praktikohet sot e kesaj dite?

    Pyetja e fundit fare Toro.

    Estonia ishte i vetmi vend i Europes ku te gjithe banoret hebrenj, 30 000 vete, u masakruan (nuk po them qe kjo s'eshte dicka mizore!!) nga popullsia lokale dhe jo nga trupat gjermane. Bile dhe ne hartat gjermane Estonia shenohej si Juden-Frei.

    A mund te di pse ka ndodhur dhe pse estonet ishin kaq te irrituar me cifutet sa arriten te benin dhe gjera te tilla??


    Kot nuk te kam sugjeruar me pare te lexosh : Black Book of Communism



    tani ta citoj edhe njehere ate paragrafin qe me shkuan syte qe ne fillim, se eshte interesant:

    Citim Postuar mė parė nga Toro
    ... Keep in mind that the IHR#&146;s answer to "what proof exists?" is "none." It has certainly been demonstrated already that this pat answer is totally dishonest. And this is the main point we wish to communicate: that Holocaust-denial is dishonest.

    dhe keta flasin per dis-honesty ??

    Prektora

  9. #49
    super saiyan Maska e vampiro
    Anėtarėsuar
    04-04-2005
    Vendndodhja
    eneh probe
    Postime
    293
    epo darwin permbysjen e vlerave e kane zanat qe nga baba Moisiu ata, e duke qen ne 'dis-honesty' vete, akuzojn palen 'honeste', po kjo s'eshte cudi, cudia ketu eshte qe Toron e ha aq shume fakti qe ne jemi katandis keq e me keq neper bote sa po i del koha qe te vete-lavazhohet trunisht e te rri te perktheje shkrimet ngado-qe-ta-shohesh-kunder-logjike te atyre qe cuditerisht nuk ka popull ne bote qe s'i ka neveri - ene kjo neveri padyshim qe ka nje shkak po aq te madh sa ajo vete Zonja i bekoft

    salu

  10. #50
    Toro, tėrė ai ēarēaf aty lart shpreh vetėm "opinion, estimate, fairly this, fairly that, allegedly, think that, believe that" etj., etj.

    Ėshtė tepėr e pasaktė mėnyra se si ti i trajton bashkėfolėsit. Darwin dhe R2T tė kanė zėnė disa pika kyēe me argumentim tė thjeshtė, me pikė kryesore - pėrllogaritjen e numrit tė tė vdekurve, pėr tė cilin ėshtė hapur dhe tema apo jo?

    Citim Postuar mė parė nga R2T
    Holokausti eshte matematikisht i pamundur te justifikohet
    Ju qe nuk jeni ulur asnjehere te beni llogarite se si u arrit shifra 6 miljone merni laps dhe leter dhe beni keto llogari (shifra qe dhe vete cifutet i pranojne)
    Kampet e perqendrimit (thuhet) se vrisnin 700 veta ne dite kur arriten kapacitetin e plote. Pra
    700 X 365 dite= 255,500 veta ne vit.
    255,000 x 4 vjet (qe nga ndertimi i kampit te pare)= 1,022,000

    Kjo duke konsideruar qe kampi punoi me kapacitet 100% 4 vjet, 365 dite ne jave 24 ore ne dite. Kjo duke mos konsideruar qe 1. Kampet deri ne 1943 kishin nje kapacitet prej 30 vetash ne dite. 2. Kampet supozohet te kene punuar per 3 vjet dhe jo 4. 3. Kampet nuk punonin 24 ore ne dite 7 dite ne jave, 5 Keta te vrare nuk ishin vetem cifute por nga te gjitha rracat. Nuk e kuptoj se si ju mund te kembengulni qe ne Aushvic jane vrare 4 miljone kur vete autoritetet e Auzhvicit, pasi bene llogarite me laps e leter e pane qe eshte matematikisht e pamundur te jene vrare aq cifute sa thuhet.

    Nga doli numri 6 miljone? Numri 6 miljone u dha fillimisht si supozim nga forcat Ruse, te cilat cliruan Auzhvicin dhe konsideruan si dhoma gazi shume pjese te kampit te cilat nuk ishin te tilla. Me pas kjo shifer u perdor nga avokatet Franceze kunder oficereve Gjermane pas luftes se II boterore. Qe atehere e deri me sot, kjo shifer vazhdon te qarkulloje si e drejte kur eshte e qarte per te gjithe ate qe dine te mbledhin, shumezojne e pjestojne se nuk eshte as llogjike as matematikisht e mundur qe ky numer te jete real.
    Ti si i pėrgjigjesh kėsaj? Lėri opinionet. Mbahu te faktet e mos e mbulo temėn me ēarēaf (tė cilin nuk ka as nevojė ta bėsh me gėrma tė trasha se bėhet akoma mė i vėshtirė pėr t'u lexuar, pėrjashto gjatėsinė e kotė qė ka - e duket sikur e bėn qėllimshėm, tamam si myslimanėt kur i pyet: "Sa ujė pive sot?" dhe tė sjellin ēarēafet e ulemajve ku shpjegojnė se si kali i bardhė ėshtė i zi).


    KVS

  11. #51
    i/e regjistruar Maska e R2T
    Anėtarėsuar
    18-04-2003
    Postime
    1,061
    Toro sic e permendi dhe KVS-ja me lart!

    Pergjigjet e tua jane te pyetjeve qe kane bere vete cifutet. Brenda mundesive ma shpjego se si arrite tek numri 6 miljone? Pse 6 e jo 16 apo 26 apo vetem 1?
    Te rrikujtoj dhe nje here qe deri ne vitin 1941 cifutet nuk coheshin ne kampe por vetem, deportoheshin nga Gjermania, pra coheshin ne Angli apo Amerike. Nga 1941-1944 kapaciteti i kampit ishte 30 veta ne dite (sic supozojne vete ata qe cliruan kampin) nga 1944-1945 kapaciteti i kampit ishte 700-800 veta ne dite, ne kater dhomat e gazit, por nuk mendohet te kete arritur kurre me teper se 500. Ne baze te ketyre shifrave, qe vete analistet japin, me trego se si dole tek numri 6 miljone.

    Ta thashe dhe me pare, kur ti pergjigjesh kesaj pyetjeje logjike, une do te te sjell dhe dhjetra te tjera, po logjike. Nje njeri me nje inteligjence mediokre, ne baze te pyetjeve e pergjigjeve, do nxirte vete te verteten.

    gjithe te mirat
    Postimi i mesiperm nuk shpreh detyrimisht opinionin e autorit mbi temen e ngritur.

  12. #52
    i/e regjistruar
    Anėtarėsuar
    06-09-2004
    Postime
    253
    Holocaust Revisionism?
    ky sit http://www.zundelsite.org/index.html eshte i preferuari im.
    ka dhe adresa te siteve te tjera, nga mund te shkarkosh pdf te ndryshme mbi kete teme
    ....

  13. #53
    Promete (i lidhur) Maska e Kryeplaku
    Anėtarėsuar
    12-09-2002
    Vendndodhja
    nė realitetin e hidhur
    Postime
    2,202
    Sa e vertet eshte qe ekzistojne Hebrejte aq e vertet eshte qe u perndoqen e u shkatruan fizikisht (sidomos gjate L2B). Problemi eshte se gjithe fajin ja hodhen Hitlerit (sigurisht ai ishte "kasapi") kurse ata qe ia lane Hitlerit doren e lire (kryesisht kur behej fjale per Hebrejte) dolen pastaj dhe na u shfaqen si humaniste!

    Nje pyetje qe mbetet eshte:

    U denuan ndonjehere shkaktaret e Holokaustit?

    Pergjigja eshte: u dekoruan ne universitetet e Bashkimit Sovjetik, Frances dhe sigurisht te SHBAs! Do thoshte dikush se edhe vet konkurenca e BS me SHBAn kush te hynte e para ne Berlin u be me shume per vjedhjen e dokumentacioneve/analizave gjermane. Hitlerin e quajten te gjithe te c'mendur por metodat e tij u nguten ti fusin neper laboratoret e tyre dhe ti zhvillojne me teper (dhe ku i dihet.... mbase nje dite do vije koha qe do i perdorin perseri, sigurisht te modifikuara..... kesaj here kush do e ket radhen?). Kurse per popullin mjaftohen ne xhirimin e filmave per gjenocidin dhe me clirimtarin amerikan qe hap dyert e Aushvicit. Cdo film te thote: larg qofte ajo dite kur nacionalizmi dhe rracizmi arriten ne kulm shkatrues, por asnje film nuk te thote larg qofte ajo dite kur teknologjia shkatroi cdo vlere njerezore!

  14. #54
    Promete (i lidhur) Maska e Kryeplaku
    Anėtarėsuar
    12-09-2002
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    nė realitetin e hidhur
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    Citim Postuar mė parė nga Lioness
    Shifrat mund te debatohen si nga njera ane ashtu dhe nga ana tjeter. Personalisht, problemi im eshte vemendja e madhe qe i jepet, kur sidomos ne US jane te heshtur persa u perket genocideve te tjera ne histori. Holocaust eshte kthyer ne nje industry (librash, fimash) perfitimi.
    Akoma nuk eshte pranuar genocidi ne Ukraine nga Stalini, ne 1932-1933 ku miliona njerez vdiqen nga uria, me force(shifra maksimale e dhene eshte 7 milione.) Stalini me shoke e jystifikoi: "Bluntly put, if you want to make an omelette, you have to break some eggs!"
    Edhe pse gazetaret amerikane te New York Times ishin te pranishem, ata e mohuan kete tragjedi.
    Ne US, genocidi me i madh eshte bere ndaj Native Americans, ku, ne baze te projektimit te rritjes se popullesise, supozohet se 200 milione njerez jane zhdukur. Ne fund te fundit, sot, ata jane me pak se 5% e popullesise prej 300 milionesh. Por kinematografia amerikane akoma vazhdon t'i pasqyroje "Indianet" si njerez te eger.
    Genocidi i Armenise nga Turqia, (1 milione e ca) u soll para disa vitesh ne Kongres per t'u njohur, por me ne fund rezoluta nuk u aprovua. Fatkeqesisht nuk me kujtohet me sa vota humbi.
    Nuk kam pasur ndonjehere ndonje simpati te vecante ndaj Hebrejve, as te kunderten, por holokausti gezon me te vertet vemendje dhe emancipim. Ato gjenocidet qe permendni ju jane shume pak ne numer po te mendosh sa gjenocide jane bere deri me sot. Por perseri nuk mund te krahasohen me holokaustin..... sepse ajo qe i ndryshon nuk eshte numri i te vdekurve por eshte menyra si u be ky gjenocid.

    Personalisht jam krenar per njohurite e mija historike dhe me thene te drejten nga gjithe ata libra qe kam lexuar, mbi lashtesine, mesjeten apo kohen moderne nuk kam gjetur ndonje gjenocid te vlefshem per tu krahasuar me holokaustin. Nese dini ju ndonje ju lutem ma tregoni!

    Shume mbreter, perandore, gjenarale etj. kane organizuar gjenocide por pothuajse ne shumicen e rasteve kane pasur nje qellim: pastrimin e zones se influences se tyre nga nje element i huaj/armik/kercenues per ta apo per eliten qe ata perfaqesonin.

    Ne rastin e holokaustit nuk ndodhi kjo gje, eshte e kote ajo qe bejne disa duke i dhene holokaustit shkaqe te perngjasuara me gjenocidet e tjera. Qellimi i holokaustit nuk ishte qe te pastrohej Gjermania apo Europa nga Hebrejte por qe te zhduket cdo individ Hebre anemban botes vetem pse ishte hebre! Dhe kjo gje eshte me te vertet pertej cdolloj llogjike dhe personalisht nuk e kam hasur ne asnje rast tjeter historik! Gjithashtu po te mendosh menyren, vendin edhe kohen (ne Europen moderne ne mes te shekullit te 20) kur u realizua te ben perseri ta vecosh nga cdo rast tjeter!

    Sidoqofte jam ndakort qe ekzistojne shume mistere dhe ane te pazbuluara te holokaustit!

    Persa i perket atyre elementeve qe permend R2T une nuk jam fizikant apo kimist qe te te pergjigjem...... por une dua vetem te shenosh nje rast, nga te shumtat.... Sipas statistikave zyrtare greke, ne vitin 1940 qyteti i Selanikut bahohej nga nje komunitet prej mbi 400 000 Hebrejsh, kurse me statistikat e pas luftes ky komunitet ishte me i vogel se 2000 individe, kurse te tjeret shfaqeshin si te humbur! Ishte hera e pare qe Selanikun mund ta quaje me gojen plote 'qytet grek'. Dhe nuk duhet te harrojme se Greqia, ne krahasim me pjesen tjeter te Europes, nuk eshte njohur ndonjehere si shtet me komunitet te madh hebraik!

    Holokausti ja vlen qe te vashdoj te reklamohet por jo me qellimin qe te perputhemi me Izraelin apo me fene judahike por me qellimin qe te marrim mesim per te mos perseritur me ato gabime shtazore te historise!

  15. #55
    i/e regjistruar
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    Citim Postuar mė parė nga Kryeplaku
    Sipas statistikave zyrtare greke, ne vitin 1940 qyteti i Selanikut bahohej nga nje komunitet prej mbi 400 000 Hebrejsh, kurse me statistikat e pas luftes ky komunitet ishte me i vogel se 2000 individe, kurse te tjeret shfaqeshin si te humbur!
    Kryeplake, shiko mos ke shtuar ndonje zero teper. Jo ti, po gabimisht aty ku e ke pare. (Per te humbur e ke fjalen per te vdekur)

    Humbjet ne njerez ne wwII mund ti kotrollosh ne shume vende. Nga ato qe kam pare une , humbjet e greqise maksimalisht vlersohen 520.000 dhe burime te tjera prestigjoze si wikipedia 300.000(280.000 civile).

    http://www.486th.org/Photos/Misc/stats.htm
    sipas kesaj 415.000 civile (260.000 vdekur nga uria)

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_War_II_casualties

    per cifutet e vrare ne greqi sipas burimeve te ndryshme:
    (http://users.erols.com/mwhite28/ww2stats.htm)
    Greece
    Harper Collins: 71,301 Jews k
    Messenger: 67,000
    Johnson: 65,000
    Davies: 57,000-60,000


    398.000 mbase zene vend te nje opsion 12 milion te vrare qe u mendua te deklarohej fillimisht.

    shifrat e mesiperme i mbulon 6 milionshi.

  16. #56
    alpha dominant Maska e D@mian
    Anėtarėsuar
    20-09-2005
    Vendndodhja
    Boston, MA
    Postime
    1,170
    Citim Postuar mė parė nga Kryeplaku
    Sipas statistikave zyrtare greke, ne vitin 1940 qyteti i Selanikut bahohej nga nje komunitet prej mbi 400 000 Hebrejsh, kurse me statistikat e pas luftes ky komunitet ishte me i vogel se 2000 individe, kurse te tjeret shfaqeshin si te humbur!

    Selaniku ka pasur 40 000 (dyzet mije), jo 400 000 hebrej para luftes. Sidoqofte ke te drejte kur thua qe u shfarosen pothuajse te gjithe.

    Nga kotaktet e kufizuara personale qe kam pasur me hebrej mund te them se jane ne pergjithesi individe profesionalisht dhe socialisht teper te afte dhe me nje kulture te larte qytetare (cka eshte normale po te mendosh se si popull jane banues qytetesh brez pas brezi ketu e mjaft shekuj). Personalisht mendoj se jane te admirueshem...

  17. #57
    Promete (i lidhur) Maska e Kryeplaku
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    Nuk e di nga dalin kaq kopetente sipershkruajtesit per te ulur apo ngritur xerot, nderkohe qe nuk jane thjesht disa xero por jane shpirtra njerezish. Por sidoqofte ja u rikujtoj se qysh ne shek. e 16 hebrejte kane qene komuniteti me i madh ne numer i Selanikut, pas shpernguljes te dhunshme se tyre nga gadishulli iberik -i ripushtuar nga te krishteret- dhe vendosjes se tyre me lejen e sulltanit ne kete qytet.

  18. #58
    i/e regjistruar
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    06-09-2004
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    Ne nentor fillon gjyqi i Ernst Zundel
    http://www.zundelsite.org/index.html

    (se kuptoj c`domethene kompetent, e pse te duhet. Ta zeme se ka nje master ne histori, do me merrje per kompetent per holokaustin?
    Per "xerot" nuk besoj se duhet te ndihemi ne ne faj, edhe ata qe vdiqen nuk i vrame ne)

  19. #59
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    06-09-2004
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    Arrestohet dhe historiani i njohur David Irving me te njejten akuze.
    (Librat e David Irving mund te shkarkohen nga http://www.fpp.co.uk/books/)


    David Irving Arrested
    Charged with denying the holocaust
    Noted author, David Irving, has been arrested by police in Austria after his car was stopped for a roadside check.

    Authorities in Vienna said that the 67-year-old author was being held under a warrant issued in November 1989 for speeches which were considered to break domestic laws preventing active denial of the Holocaust.

    The offence carries a maximum sentence of 20 years in prison.

    Irving was arrested on November 11, 2005 but has been held incommunicado since then and only on November 18 was news of his arrest leaked to the press.

    The charges stemmed from speeches Mr Irving delivered in Vienna and in the southern town of Leoben in 1989.

    Christoph Poechinger, a spokesman for the Austrian Justice Ministry, said it was likely that charges would be pressed against Irving and that he would be kept in custody until the case came to court.

    Irving, he was arrested by police who allegedly learned of his visit "by wiretaps or intercepting e-mails," En route to Austria, Irving had privately visited German playwright Rolf Hochhuth, a friend he had not seen in 20 years.

    Hochhuth has gained notoriety for plays criticizing the Allies' bombing campaigns during World War II as war crimes and characterizing Winston Churchill as a war criminal. Earlier this year, Hochhuth was criticized for defending Irving as "an honorable man" and insisting he was not a Holocaust denier.

  20. #60
    i/e regjistruar
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    06-09-2004
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    ()
    David Irving, the British historian arrested by Austrian government officers last year for denying the Holocaust, claims now Hitler’s liquidation of six million Jews took place after all. Having learned the error of his ways, how can you continue to believe that the German Nazis never engaged in a deliberate plan to exterminate God’s Chosen People?

    In the early 1600s, an Italian astronomer proved that the Earth orbits the Sun. While taken for granted today (save perhaps by certain African tribes and Evangelical Christians), Galileo Galilei’s observation was condemned as the most heinous crime, because the authorities of his day insisted that the entire universe revolved around themselves. When brought to trial, the scientist declared that it would be "a terrible detriment for the very souls of people if they found themselves convinced by proof of something that it was made a sin to believe."

    But his judges were unmoved. They condemned Galilei’s book as "false and erroneous" before destroying all copies, instructed him to henceforward neither "hold nor defend" all blasphemous nonsense about the Sun or Earth, and enjoined him from "teaching or discussing these ideas in any way." Faced with "perpetual imprisonment", the ailing old man "abjured, cursed and detested" his unpopular findings. Having thus recanted the truth under duress, his sentence was commuted to house arrest. He died a prisoner in his own home, unable to share his paradigm-shattering discovery with the outside world. Galileo’s forced denial did not prevent the Earth from orbiting the Sun anymore than Irving’s recantation killed six million Jews. Although separated by four hundred years, both men shared a common fate, because their discoveries struck at the Big Lie upon which the respective tyrannies of their times stood. Their books were destroyed, their findings condemned as the most offensive heresy, and either man was imprisoned for speaking his opinions.

    Their common fate makes it difficult to tell the difference between a 17th Century Inquisition and 21st Century democracy. As Lincoln Rockwell, the founder of American National Socialism, was fond of pointing out, "Under phony ‘democracies’ where freedom of expression is supposedly allowed, you are allowed to criticize anyone except the tyrants actually in power. In Cuba, you have freedom to criticize anyone except Castro. In China, you have freedom to criticize anyone except the Communists. In the West, you have freedom to criticize anyone except the Jews. That should show you who and what are the real masters of modern society!"

    Acknowledgment of Galileo’s conclusions would have utterly destroyed the very premise upon which his accusers based their political power. Acknowledgment of Irving’s conclusions would no less destroy the very premise upon which today’s tyrants base their political power. With no "Holocaust", the many billions of dollars in bogus "reparations" bilked from the German people to prop up the parasitic, antagonistic state of Israel would no longer be justified. With no "Holocaust", the Jews would be exposed as the greatest liars of all time. With no "Holocaust", their high moral ground against all forms of criticism and exposure would be forever lost. With no "Holocaust", Adolf Hitler and National Socialism can no longer be portrayed as the most wicked man and phenomenon of all time, leaving the door open to a positive reassessment of the man and his work for emulation. With no "Holocaust", all those teachers, historians, preachers, authors, movie-makers, politicians, and judges who have based their careers on it for the last sixty years would be shown up as the biggest fools and liars in history.

    This understood, the similarly harsh treatment meted out to Galileo Galilei and David Irving becomes comprehensible. Moreover, Irving, like Galileo, is a scientist, not a National Socialist. He, too, is an old man threatened with a heavy sentence even a younger man would find challenging. As such, he is not expected to defy his judges, as Hermann Goering or Julius Streicher did at Nuremberg, although they, too, were condemned for telling the truth about the Jews.

    Like them and his Italian predecessor, Irving’s plight shines a spotlight on the mean-spirited, remorseless Jewocracy that runs the world far brighter than any book he could ever hope to write.

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