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  1. #1
    ILIR N GEN Maska e flory80
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    03-12-2006
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    Buz Vjoss Kaltroshe
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    Arvanitt hapin shkolln e par n gjuhn mm!

    Me gjith se jam i kshilluar t mos bj shum zhurm pr kt shtje, duke e ln kt eveniment si nj veprim spontan t ndodhur n zonat e banuara nga Arvanitt e Greqis, un nuk e prmbaj dot gzimin dhe desha ta ndaja at me ju.
    Nuk kam ndonj link apo ndonj informacion zyrtar, por m sht vrtetuar nga disa miqt e mi Arvanit se nga mesi i muajit q sapo u mbyll, u hap nj shkoll e vogl n nj qytez t vogl t quajtur Liosia n Atikin e Veriut dhe kjo sht nj shkoll q funksionon vetm n fundjav dhe aty fmijt e vegjl Arvanit msojn fjal t prdorimit t prditshm dhe shprehje.
    Nuk bhet fjal pr nj shkoll t mirfillt, por ashtu si dhe than miqt e mi, ky sht nj hap i madh. Ky sht nj gur i madh themeli q u vu n kalan q ka nisur t ndrtohet.
    Arvanitt kan filluar t zgjohen dhe t kuptojn se identiteti i tyre sht n rrezik, ata m n fund kan filluar ti thrrasin ndrgjegjes dhe t pranojn se gjaku i tyre sht gjak Arbror dhe nuk jan as m shum dhe as m pak, por vllezr t Shqiptarve t sotm
    Gjja tjetr q m bri prshtypje n bisedn me miqt e mi, ishte dhe euforia q ata kishin pr Kosovn dhe Kosovart.
    Ata m than se Kosova do t bhet si Kruja e kohs s Sknderbeut, dhe si shmbull jepnin fondet q Ministria e Kulturs Rinis dhe Sporteve t Republiks s Kosovs kishte dhn pr nj dokumentar t Lirio Nushit n lidhje me Arvanitt. Ata ishin aq t entuziazmuar sa me t vrtet u mallngjyem t gjith.
    Ata nuk e shprehnin por ishte sikur thoshin se: "Ne nuk do t humbasim. Dikush na mbshtet. Shqiptart nuk na urrjen"
    Me t vrtet q ekziston nj hendek i madh njohurish n t dyja kraht dhe do t ishte mir sikur ministrit e t dyja vendeve Shqiptare n Ballkan, Shqipris dhe Kosovs t kishin nj drejtori t caktuar pr Pakicat Shqiptare n vende si Serbia, Greqia, Mali i Zi, Italia, Turqia e t tjera vende ku rrojn Shqiptar, etnik ose jo.
    Ju uroj suksese, ju qoft kmba e mbar atyre voglushve t par q kan kaprxyer pragun e ksaj shkolle Arvanite n qoft se mund ta quajm kshtu.
    EH I ZIU NJERI, GLLTIT DIKU NJE LUG ORB T PRISHUR, EDHE VJELL PASTAJ PR GJITH JETN!

  2. #2
    Prenku i Dalmatve
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    N dritn fosforike q lshojn varrezat gjat nats
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    Meqense sht e vrtet (po t besojm), ather urime, dhe u shtofshin shkollat edhe ma shum.

    A jan fjalt tua kto sipr?

  3. #3
    i/e larguar Maska e GL_Branch
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    02-11-2003
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    Arbany
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    Veshtire e kam qe ta besoj

    Lere qe greket nuk e japin kete drejte por edhe Arvanitasin pothuajse jane shkrire ne grek

  4. #4
    ILIR N GEN Maska e flory80
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    GL Branch!
    Jo t gjith, prkundrazi tani Arvanitt kan filluar t kuptojn se far u solli adaptimi i identitetit Grek!
    Ata pranojn nn z se jan Shqiptar, dhe pr hapjen e shkolls si e thash edhe m sipr nuk sht hapur zyrtarisht por n ambjentet e nj shkolle shtetrore, por kuptohet q komuniteti i atjeshm sht Arvanit dhe msuesit jan gjithashtu Arvanit. Ata shkojn atje n fundjav dhe u msojn fmijve t tyre elementt baz t gjuhs.
    Arvanitt kan kuptuar se me humbjen e gjuhs do t humbas dhe identiteti i tyre.

    A jan fjalt tua kto sipr?
    Po Testim
    EH I ZIU NJERI, GLLTIT DIKU NJE LUG ORB T PRISHUR, EDHE VJELL PASTAJ PR GJITH JETN!

  5. #5
    i/e regjistruar Maska e Maars
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    Flori faleminderit per lajmin,
    kjo nisme eshte nje rreze e vogel drite ne kete kohe te zymte per Arvanitasit dhe gjithe Shqiptaret. Na informo edhe me tej per vazhdimin e kesaj shkolle dhe te uroj suksese ty dhe miqeve te tu, e mos u ndalni vetem me kaq por nqs keni mundesi vazhdojeni kete projekt edhe tek zonat e tjera te Greqise ku flitet gjuha jona.

  6. #6
    Perjashtuar
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    ATJE KU ME RESPEKTOJN SI SHQIPTAR
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    Shume lajm i mire,me behet qefi qe jan vete arvanitet, ose disa prej tyre qe kan marre kete inisiative kaq fisnike,.

    po do duhej qe te ishte shteti shqiptar ai i cili duhet te investonte me shum ne keto ceshtje shum te rendesishme kombtare,e deri tani shteti jon eshte thuajse negzistent ne te tilla problemesh kombtare.

    Gjithsesi i pergezoj nga zemra nismetaret e kesaj (cerdheje)te gjuhes shqipe,dhe uroj qe ne te ardhmen nga kjo cerdhe te dalin zogj te mire e te bejn cerdhe gjithandej ku ka shqipfoles.

  7. #7
    fanatik i s vrtets Maska e tomaras
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    Dit e madhe pr t gjith pasardhsit pellasgo-ilir. Fara q e mbolli I MADHI Aristidh Kola dhe sakrifica e tij do t'i jap frytet e veta se s'bn. Gjaku uj nuk bhet. Urime arbrorve t gjetur nn sundimin e grekut dhe grekofilve.

  8. #8
    fossa dei leoni Maska e prenceedi
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    paradoksi i radhes i shqiptareve
    arvanitet greke kerkojne te behen shqiptar ndersa shqiptaret shqiptar kerkojne te behen greke
    "bir selmani nenes ke te qaj me pare"

  9. #9
    Konservatore Maska e Dita
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    Flory80, po para se te japesh lajme te tilla eshte mire te konsultohesh me personat qe e kane ndare informacionin me ty, nese ata duan te publikohet ose jo si fakt. Nese eshte i vertete, eshte lajm shume i madh dhe i bukur.


    Ne nje raport i Komitetit Grek te Helsinkit mbi Arvanitet shkruhet sa vijon:

    Report

    -

    THE ARVANITES

    General data on the language

    Arvanites are those whose mother tongue is Arvanitika (name in Greek - )/ Arberichte (name in their language); most linguists use the word Albanian for that language, but the community loathes its use, and it is therefore advisable that this sensitivity be taken into consideration unless researchers and/or human and minority rights activists do not mind alienating the very community they are studying. Likewise, they call themselves Arvanites (in Greek) and Arberor (in their language); but in Northwestern Greece, in their language, they use the term Shqiptar (the same used by Albanians of Albania), a term strongly disliked by the other Arvanites, who also resent being called Albanians.

    Nevertheless, Arvanitika belongs to the linguistic family of Albanian, and it has evolved from one of the two linguistic groups of Albanian, the South Albanian Tosk (the other is the North Albanian Gheg). Arvanitika has a dialectical richness: there are three different groups of dialects spoken, one in Thrace, one in Northwestern Greece (near the Albanian border), and one in Central and Southern Greece. The latter, which includes the vast majority of speakers of Arvanitika in Greece, has by itself a great dialectical variety which makes some of these dialects to be, or to be perceived by the speakers as, mutually unintelligible (Nakratzas, 1992:86; Trudgill et al., 1975:44; Tsitsipis, 1983:297; Williams, 1992:85). Along with Vlachs, Macedonians, and Roma, Arvanites in Greece argue whether they should use the Greek or the Latin alphabet to write their language, which has rarely been written (Gerou, 1994a; Kazazis, 1994).

    Most Arvanites have traditionally lived in Central and Southern Greece: in most departments of the regions of Continental Greece (Sterea Ellada) and the Peloponnese (including especially most islands corresponding to these areas) and the Cyclades island of Andros. Arvanites also live near the Albanian border, in most departments of Epirus and in the Florina and Kastoria departments of Macedonia; also, in the border (with Turkey) department of Evros (in Thrace) and in the Salonica department (where they settled along with other Orthodox refugees from Eastern Thrace, in the 1920s). Like the rest of the population, since the 1950s, Arvanites have been emigrating from their villages to the cities and especially to the capital Athens, which, incidentally, was a mainly Albanian (Arvanite) small town in the early 1800s, before becoming the Greek states capital (Nakratzas, 1992:87-8). It appears that urbanization has been leading to the loss of the use of the language, which has been surviving more in the traditional villages.

    There have not been any official statistics on this as well as on any other minority group in Greece since 1951 (and the statistics before then are generally considered unreliable, reflecting mostly only those with a strong ethnic consciousness). Today, the best estimate for the people who speak the language and/or have an Arvanite consciousness is that they number around 200,000. Trudgill (1983:128) gives an estimate of 140,000 for the speakers in Attica and Beotia, a figure also mentioned in Hill (1990:135). For the Arvanites in the Northwest, a figure of 30,000 is given by Ciampi (1985:87), who also puts the figure for the total group at 156,000-201,000. Some members of the community give much higher figures, around 1,600,000 (Kormoss, 1994:1; and Gerou, 1994b:2): this figure may correspond to all Greeks who have some Arvanite ancestry, but certainly not to the current speakers and those with a similar consciousness. Like all other minority languages, except Turkish, Arvanitika has no legal status in Greece and is not taught at any level of the educational system.

    Moreover, there are no media in Arvanitika, though in some Attica radio stations some Arvanitika songs can be heard. Arvanites are Orthodox Christians (many belong to the Old-Calendarist Genuine Orthodox Church); their church services are held in Greek, with some rare exceptions of Gospel reading in Arvanitika at Easter. Even Arvanite cultural activities appear to be limited. Tsitsipis has reported only occasional folklore festivals, music and poetry contests (Tsitsipis, 1983 & 1994). Since the 1980s, there has been a creation of Arvanite cultural associations and publication of a magazine and some books on Arvanite culture (very little though published in the language). In some areas, Easter Gospel is read in Arvanitika (Gerou, 1994a). Perhaps the most significant -for the large public- venture is the release of the CD -with an attached explanatory booklet- Arvanitic Songs (FM Records, 1994).

    History of the community and the language

    The first Christian Albanian migrations to what is today Greek territory took place as early as the XI-XII centuries (Trudgill, 1975:5; Banfi, 1994:19), although the main ones most often mentioned in the bibliography happened in the XIV-XV centuries, when Albanians were invited to settle in depopulated areas by their Byzantine, Catalan or Florentine rulers (Tsitsipis, 1994:1; Trudgill, 1975:5; Nakratzas, 1992:20-24 & 78-90; Banfi, 1994:19). According to some authors, they were also fleeing forced Islamization by the Turks in what is today Albania (Katsanis, 1994:1). So, some have estimated that, when the Ottomans conquered the whole Greek territory in the XV century, some 45% of it was populated by Albanians (Trudgill, 1975:6). Another wave of Muslim Albanian migrations took place during the Ottoman period, mainly in the XVIII century (Trudgill, 1975:6; Banfi, 1994:19). All these Albanians are the ancestors of modern-day Arvanites in Central and Southern Greece.

    Very little is known about the Albanian presence in Thrace; it was probably a spill-over of the many migrations mentioned above. Anyhow, there were many Albanians in Eastern Thrace and in the adjacent Western Thrace department of Evros. The former, as Christians, were relocated in Greece during the compulsory exchange of Christians and Muslims between modern-day Turkey and Greece in the 1920s: many settled in the Salonica department.

    As for the Arvanites of Epirus and Western Macedonia, they are considered to be part of the modern Albanian nation (Banfi, 1994:20), something which perhaps explains their self-identification as Shqiptars rather than Arberor. When frontiers were drawn up in the early XX century, some Christian and Muslim Albanians were left in Greek territory, just as some Greeks were left in Albanian territory. An important part of these Albanians, the Muslim Chams, fled Greece towards the end of World War II, as many had collaborated with the occupying forces and were, as a result, persecuted by Greek resistance.

    When the modern Greek state was formed, the Albanian-speaking population and its language were called Albanian, even if those Christian Albanians were considered an integral part of the Greek nation and had played a decisive role in the War of Independence between 1821-1828 (Bartholdy, 1993; Bickford-Smith, 1993: 47; Embeirikos, 1994; Vakalopoulos, 1994:243-249). However, the policy of the new Greek state was to Hellenize all the non-Greek speaking Orthodox populations within its, then limited, territory as well as in the territories of Epirus, Macedonia, Thrace and Asia Minor still under Ottoman rule, which were though considered as part of Greek irredenta; the other Balkan countries (Serbia, Bulgaria, Romania, and later Albania) had also followed similar policies. As elsewhere in Europe, army and education were the most effective mechanisms of Hellenization, assisted by the judiciary system ready to denounce and punish all forms of behavior inconsistent with the states nationalist culture (Kitromilidis, 1990:38; Kollias, 1994).

    It is noteworthy to point out though, that, before the definite development of modern Albanian nationalism, there were efforts in the 1870s to include most Albanians under Ottoman rule in a Greek-Albanian kingdom (Castellan, 1991:333; Vakalopoulos, 1994: 243-249), just as others appealed to them for their inclusion in an Albanian-Vlach Macedonian state (Berard, 1987:292-333). The Albanians fear of an eventual assimilation by the Greeks led to the failure of the former effort.

    The result of the Hellenization policy -which was to take a very oppressive turn during the Metaxas dictatorship (1936-1940)- was that Albanian Greeks, especially after the emergence of Albanian nationalism and of the Albanian state, felt that they had to constantly prove their Greekness. Hence, their very conservative political behavior: they had traditionally been royalists and, in large numbers, adhered to the Old Calendarist Orthodox Christian Church, which -when the split in the Greek Church over the introduction of the new calendar took place in the 1920s- was originally supported by the royalist forces. Moreover, and more important for the survival of their language, they have distanced themselves from the Albanians to the extent that most consider today offending to be called Albanians: they have preferred the term Arvanite (Arberor in their own language) for the people and Arvanitika (Arberichte) for the language, as opposed to Albanian (Shqiptar for the people and Shqip for the language) that Albanians use for themselves and their language -with the exception of the Arvanites of Northwestern Greece, as mentioned above. This attitude may also explain the efforts of some intellectuals of the Arvanite community to trace Arvanites and Arvanitikas roots back to the prehistoric inhabitants of Greece, the Pelasgians and their language, so as to claim indigenous status (Williams, 1992:87; Gerou, 1994b; Thomopoulos, 1912).

    Trudgill (1994) has shown that, in Greece, as minority languages are all alien (Abstand) to Greek, the use of different names for them (Arvanitika rather than Albanian, Vlach rather than Romanian, Slav rather than Macedonian) has contributed to denying their heteronomy (i.e. their dependence on the corresponding standard language) and increasing their autonomy (by assigning them the status of autonomous languages). As a result, the minority languages vulnerability grew significantly, as well as the dissociation of the speakers ethnic (Arvanite, Vlach, Slavophone) identities from the corresponding national identities (Albanian, Romanian, Macedonian) which have developed in the respective modern nation-states. Today, Arvanite ethnic identity is perceived by many members of the community as distinct from that of the other Greeks who have Greek as their mother tongue but as fully compatible with Greek national identity (likewise for many Vlachs and Macedonians). A similar phenomenon has helped weaken the links between Pomaks in Greece (speaking a Bulgarian-based language) and Bulgarians, and the consequent Pomaks assimilation into the Turkish ethnic and, by now, national identity in Western Thrace, an assimilation here detrimental to Greeces homogenization and anti-minority policies. In another Balkan context, such attitude helped distance the literary Macedonian language standardized by Yugoslav authorities in the late 1940s from Bulgarian to which the previously spoken dialects in Yugoslav Macedonia were heteronomous.

    If Hellenization was a significant factor for the weakening of the use of Arvanitika, urbanization was another. Arvanitika had survived until recently in many homogeneous villages where most people had been using the language regularly. Those, though, who moved to the cities soon abandoned the use of the language as it was unintelligible to most other city dwellers and was even perecived as a sign of backwardness; on the other hand, the children had no way of learning the language as neither was it taught at school nor was it used regularly by family members -often grand parents- at home (Moraitis, 1994).

    Current situation of the community and the language

    Almost all information about the present concerns the bulk of the Arvanite community in Central and Southern Greece. The other two communities are hardly mentioned in the literature and have also been ignored in the 1987 European Bureau for Lesser Used Languages (EBLUL) visit to the Arvanite community in Greece, an oversight which led to at least one indirect protest letter by the Tychero municipality (Kazazis, 1994); nevertheless, a 1994 second visit by the EBLUL was again limited to the Central Greece Arvanite villages.

    Almost all speakers of Arvanitika are today bilingual, i.e. they also speak Greek, usually fluently for the younger generations (Trudgill, 1975:53). It is widely agreed that Arvanitika today have been influenced significantly by the linguistic environment in which they have evolved, sometimes for centuries, without any contact with the Albanian communities of modern day Albania. So, it has acquired a separate (Ausbau) status from Albanian, in fact with dialectical richness; nevertheless, at least partial mutual intelligibility between Arvanite and Albanian exists (Trudgill, 1994:14). Indeed, the recent (in the early 1990s) arrival of hundreds of thousands, mainly illegal, Albanian immigrants in Greece has led to a successful test of that mutual intelligibility, when many settled in Arvanitika villages (it is also noteworthy that in these villages we have seen the two most serious incidents of beatings of Albanian immigrants).

    A comparison with standard Albanian shows that Arvanitika has suffered reduction and simplification. Reduction here means loss of: Albanian vocabulary (often replaced by Greek words duly adapted phonetically and morphologically); prepositions (sometimes replaced by Greek ones); verbal tenses; and forms. While simplification consists of loss of case forms, connecting particles and invariable verbal forms (Trudgill, 1983:115-123).

    On the other hand, Arvanitika is threatened with extinction. In the early 1970s, more than 80% of the inhabitants of Arvanite villages in the Attica & Beotia departments were found to be fluent speakers of Arvanitika, though the loss of the language was more pronounced in the villages close to Athens than elsewhere; at the same time, however, the actual use of the language was more limited (Trudgill, 1975:56-61). Moreover, there has been a rather widespread indifference among Arvanites, as well as Vlachs and Macedonian, about the fate of their mother tongues, along with self-deprecation: they have been led by the dominant unilingual Greek culture to -usually sincerely- believe that these languages are deficient, lack proper grammatical structure, have a poor vocabulary (Trudgill, 1994:14; Tsitsipis, 1994:4). So, gradually, Arvanites have switched from bilingualism to a subordination of Arvanitika to Greek; and, sometimes, young people discourage their parents from speaking the language (especially in public). It is probably a correct estimate, although no studies equivalent to that of the 1970s exist, that the language is used today by middle aged people (interchanged with Greek) and by elderly people (in most contexts) and much less by the younger generation (usually when addressing older people, in strict family context, or, sometimes, too, to make fun of non-speakers) (Tsitsipis, 1994; Trudgill, 1983:114-5). Moreover, in the Peloponnese, it seems that the users are predominantly elderly people (Williams, 1992:85-6). Experts, therefore, agree that Arvanitika in Greece is threatened with extinction more than the equivalent Arberichte language of Southern Italy, as the latter country is more tolerant and does not feel threatened by plurilingualism (Hamp, 1978; Tsitsipis, 1983).

    Since the 1980s, some efforts to preserve Arvanite culture have been made. A congress was held in 1985. Four cultural associations have been created: the Arvanitikos Syndesmos Hellados (the Arvanite League of Greece) which has been publishing, since 1983, the bimonthly Besa (in Greek); the Kentro Arvanitikou Politismou (Center for Arvanite Culture); the Arvanitikos Syllogos Ano Liosion (Arvanite Association of Ano Liosia); and the Syllogos Arvaniton Corinthias (Association of Arvanites of Corinthia). Books on Arvanite culture have been published. Church reading and chanting in some Arvanite villages has been reported (Williams, 1992:87). Finally, we had the release of a CD with Arvanite music mentioned above. Overall, though, this movement is weaker than similar ones among Vlachs and Macedonians (and certainly among officially recognized Turks).

    One reason for such a slow movement is the apparent hostility of the Greek state to such revivals among Arvanites, Vlachs, and Macedonians, which is indicated by police disruption of festivals (in Macedonia), and harassment of musicians who play and sing songs in minority languages; as well as by the tolerance -by the state and particularly its judiciary- of public calls, printed in the press, to use violence against those musicians; likewise, human and minority rights activists have been the object of similar threats (Stohos, 20/7/1994 and in previous issues, where even the European Unions Euromosaic project -to report on the status of the linguistic minorities in the EU- was attacked). Such hostile environment makes even the scholars work look suspicious: for example, Arvanites have reacted with incredulity and suspicion to scholars assertions that their language can be written (Tsitsipis, 1983:296-7; Trudgill, 1983:129; Williams, 1992:88). Moreover, the EBLULs first visit to the community was violently attacked by some community members (Williams, 1992:88) as well as in state-sponsored publications (Lazarou et al., 1993:191-193).

    Likewise, Arvanitika has never been included in the educational curricula of the modern Greek state. On the contrary, its use has been strongly discouraged at schools (and in the army) through physical punishment, humiliation, or, in recent years, simple incitation of the Arvanitika users (Williams, 1992:86; Trudgill, 1983:130-1). Such attitudes have led many Arvanite (as well as Vlach, and Macedonian) parents to discourage their children from learning their mother tongue so as to avoid similar discrimination and suffering (Trudgill, 1983:130).

  10. #10
    ToRoNtO_GuY Maska e YoUGoTNoGaMe
    Antarsuar
    02-02-2009
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    EaRtH..,On TeMpOrArY ViSa.....Ne ToKe..,Me ViZE Te PeRkOhShMe
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    Pak vone e paskan hapur shkollen Arvanitasit
    Megjithate, me mire vone se kurre

    MASAKRAT E SHOVINIZMIT GREK NE SHQIPERI. PER TE MOS HARRUAR KURRE!!!

    http://ca.youtube.com/watch?v=brgeGi2_unY
    WoRlD WiDe AlBaNiAn PrIdE
    euit ript 9

  11. #11
    i/e regjistruar
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    13-03-2006
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    ore njesh po andej nga liosia qe thua ti vetem cigane ka mos jane ata arvanitas???

  12. #12
    E dua letrsin Maska e Ali Baba Tepele
    Antarsuar
    15-03-2007
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    Greqi
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    38 falenderime n 36 postime
    Historikisht Politika Greke sht e prqndruar tek Lufta kundr Gjuhs Shqipe.Duke ditur mir se: "Nj komb vdes kur vdes gjuha e tij !"Grekt gjithmon me mnyra nga m t rdomta e deri tek m t sofistikuarat e ka patur n politikn e saj kombtar luftn kundr gjuhs Shqipe.Prandaj kemi ato pasoja q jan prezent tani,q nga kombtarizimi i Arvanitasve e deri tek koht e sotme moderrne t emigrimit t fundit t vitit 1990-91.Prandaj edhe prpjekjet tona e gjith inteligjencs Shqiptare kan qn n ruajtjen e mbrojtjen e gjuhs Shqipe.
    Dy fjal pr rikujtim:N shekuj gjuha Shqipe sht ndeshur me prpjekje shum t ashpra pr tu eliminuar por asnjher nuk kan mundur ta eleminojn.Prkundrazi at fat e kan pasur ato gjuh kunkurente.Nj gjuh zhduket ather kur nuk ka baz,d.m.th. kur ajo sht ndrtuar si nj piramid ta ndrtosh me kulmin mbi tok dhe bazn duke ngritur e duke u zgjeruar.Ajo gjuh sht e destinuar t zhduket duke mos qn e aft t'i rezistoj evolimit historik e gjuhsor.T till fat psoi Latinishtja,Greqishtja etj.

    Gjuha jon sa e mir,
    Sa e mbl sa e gjer,
    Sa e leht sa e lir,
    Sa e bukur sa e vler.

    Me kto vargje lapidare Naimi yn i madh ka treguar t vrtetat dhe karakteristikat e pa mohueshme t gjuhs Shqipe.
    "Dhe drit e dituris prpara do na shpjer" S.F.
    Ta ruajm e ta mbrojm gjuhn ton t bukur sepse atje dallon kombi Shqiptar.
    Respekt t gjithve
    Ndryshuar pr her t fundit nga Ali Baba Tepele : 04-02-2009 m 12:05

  13. #13
    Une jam shqiptar Maska e gjergj arianiti
    Antarsuar
    29-12-2008
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    ne boten e cudirave
    Mosha
    38
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    Falenderuar 1 her n 1 postim
    Citim Postuar m par nga Centauri Lexo Postimin
    ore njesh po andej nga liosia qe thua ti vetem cigane ka mos jane ata arvanitas???
    E ke gabim ato zonat andej liosia, aspropirgo, e.t.j jane plot me arvanitas.Me ka qelluar te punoj andej duke vene ca kollona dritash neper rruge,dhe me ka rastisur 4,5 here te me afrohen arvanitas dhe te flasim bashke shqip.Dhe me sa duket eshte e vertete ajo llafja qe thojne qe gjaku uje nuk behet, e them kete sepse me sillnin gjera per te pire(ishte periudha veres) dhe rrinin ndonje cope here jashte me mua duke bere muhabet, tamam sic i ka hije mikpritjes shqiptare, nga menyra se si flisnim me dhane pershtypjen se kishin mall, qef per te folur shqip por dhe kishin frike,druheshin ne te njejten kohe sepse sapo afroheshe ndonje greke ndalonin.
    Sa per nismen qe kane marre arvanitasit atje duhet te them se eshte nje gje shume e madhe, duke marre parasysh se me propoganden antishqiptare qe ben qellimisht shteti grek, ka disa shqiptar te lindur ne Shqiperi me pashaporte shqiptare qe hiqen si grek, e jo me arvanitasve qe kane lindur ne Greqi dhe kane pashaporte greke.
    Urime pra vellezerve tone arber per nismen e marre,me mire vone se kurre.

  14. #14
    ILIR N GEN Maska e flory80
    Antarsuar
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    Citim Postuar m par nga gjergj arianiti Lexo Postimin
    Dhe me sa duket eshte e vertete ajo llafja qe thojne qe gjaku uje nuk behet, e them kete sepse me sillnin gjera per te pire(ishte periudha veres) dhe rrinin ndonje cope here jashte me mua duke bere muhabet, tamam sic i ka hije mikpritjes shqiptare, nga menyra se si flisnim me dhane pershtypjen se kishin mall, qef per te folur shqip por dhe kishin frike,druheshin ne te njejten kohe sepse sapo afroheshe ndonje greke ndalonin.
    Fjala e urt q prdoret m s shumti nga Arvanitt sht Gjaku nuku bnet uj, po e n bnet, nuku pinet
    Me sa duket ata duan t thon dika me kt...
    Na thuaj ndonj detaj pr jetn e Arvanitasve n at zon.
    T prshndes.
    EH I ZIU NJERI, GLLTIT DIKU NJE LUG ORB T PRISHUR, EDHE VJELL PASTAJ PR GJITH JETN!

  15. #15
    Perjashtuar Maska e morrison
    Antarsuar
    16-01-2007
    Vendndodhja
    Me kembe ne toke!
    Postime
    827
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    0
    Falenderuar 1 her n 1 postim
    Ne vitet 2002-03 kisha nje klient arvanitas me te cilin kisha bizeduar shume rreth ceshtjes se arvanitasve biles me kishte dhene dhe shume libra duke me porositur 100 here qe ti ruaja si syte e ballit dhe mbasi ti lexoja t'ia ktheja prap. Ato ishin libra te zhdukur nga qarkullimi nga asfalia greke. Neper to kishte poezi e kenge arvanitase si dhe fakte historike te shkruara nga shkrimtare arvanitas me shkronja greke.

    Ai bente pjese ne lidhjen arvanitase dhe mbiemrin e kishte "Marini". Mbaj mend si sot pergjigjen e tij kur e pyeta pse nuk hapin shkolla shqipe. Ai me citoi: "Ne i kishim shkollat, por na i mbyllen greket. Ne 90' po pergatiteshim qe t'i hapnim prap, por erdhet ju (shqiptaret) dhe qeveria greke u tremb akoma me shume dhe nuk na lejoi qe t'i hapnim ato. Megjithate do presim akoma dhe disa vjet dhe kur te gjejme momentin e pershtatshem do i hapim prap ato". Si duket erdhi momenti qe te hapen....

    Besoj se filogreket ktu ne forum nuk do vonojne qe ti dergojne ndonje e-mail bollanos (le qe s'ma merr mendja se ka e-mail ai fshatari ftyrkuq, por rrezik se i dergojne ndonje pellumb postier) dhe omonias per lajmin e kobshem....
    Ndryshuar pr her t fundit nga morrison : 05-02-2009 m 22:23

  16. #16
    Une jam shqiptar Maska e gjergj arianiti
    Antarsuar
    29-12-2008
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    ne boten e cudirave
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    Falenderuar 1 her n 1 postim
    Citim Postuar m par nga flory80 Lexo Postimin
    Na thuaj ndonj detaj pr jetn e Arvanitasve n at zon.
    T prshndes.
    Une nuk jetoj ne ate zone por rastesisht kam punuar per dy-tre muaj atje dhe qellova te flas me arvanitas SHQIP dhe ato me thane se ajo zone eshte plot me arvanitas.Ditet e para qe punoja atje, isha ne nje rruge me vila lluksoze dhe degjoj nje ze nga mbrapa qe me therret "o shok", por me theks te cuditshem, thash se do jet ndonje grek qe ka mesuar fjalen shok dhe ju afrova duke i folur greqisht, por ai per habine time me kthen ne shqip me theks grek.Ata qe me ben pershtypje ama, ishin nje familje arvanitese ku i jati them se e fliste shqipen me mire se mua, ishte rreth 70 vjec me sa mbaj mend, edhe gruaja e tij me djalin e flisnin por jo aq mire, me nusen e djalit nuk qelloi rasti te flisnim, sa per niperit me tha plaku qe nuk dinin por kishte qejf ti mesonte, te pakten disa llafe.
    Por ne Atiki(Athina me provincat perreth) ka dhe zona te tjera ku mund te thuash se popullsia derrmuese eshte arvanitase si psh Koropi,Peania,Markopulo e.t.j.Pastaj arvanitas ka te shperndare ne gjithe Athinen.Madje lagjia me vjeter ne Athine, qe ndodhet ne kembet e Akropolit quhet Plaka,ky emer i ka ngelur nga arvanitasit qe thonin Athina plake,kete ma ka pohuar dhe profesorja gjuhes ne shkolle.Arvanitas ka ne cdo krahine te Greqise,ka nje qytet te tere me arvanitas, Thiva, ku s'duhet te dish greqisht qe te merresh vesh.
    Me ka rastisur shume here te bisedoj me arvanitas ketu,shumica e pranojne qe jane me preardhje shqiptare dhe shume pak ato qe se pranojne.
    Politika greke ketu eshte shume e ashper me minoritetet.Ajo qe dua te them eshte se perdorin c'do menyre ,propoganden,dhunen,ndryshime te historise e.t.j vetem qe te thojne se jane nje popull i paster dhe pa pakica te huajsh.
    Prandaj s'duhet patur inat per ato arvanitas qe se pranojne qe jane shqiptare se jane viktima te propogandes greke.

  17. #17
    Hands up! Maska e Jack Watson
    Antarsuar
    30-04-2007
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    Tiron'
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    7 falenderime n 7 postime
    Citim Postuar m par nga gjergj arianiti Lexo Postimin
    Une nuk jetoj ne ate zone por rastesisht kam punuar per dy-tre muaj atje dhe qellova te flas me arvanitas SHQIP dhe ato me thane se ajo zone eshte plot me arvanitas.Ditet e para qe punoja atje, isha ne nje rruge me vila lluksoze dhe degjoj nje ze nga mbrapa qe me therret "o shok", por me theks te cuditshem, thash se do jet ndonje grek qe ka mesuar fjalen shok dhe ju afrova duke i folur greqisht, por ai per habine time me kthen ne shqip me theks grek.Ata qe me ben pershtypje ama, ishin nje familje arvanitese ku i jati them se e fliste shqipen me mire se mua, ishte rreth 70 vjec me sa mbaj mend, edhe gruaja e tij me djalin e flisnin por jo aq mire, me nusen e djalit nuk qelloi rasti te flisnim, sa per niperit me tha plaku qe nuk dinin por kishte qejf ti mesonte, te pakten disa llafe.
    Por ne Atiki(Athina me provincat perreth) ka dhe zona te tjera ku mund te thuash se popullsia derrmuese eshte arvanitase si psh Koropi,Peania,Markopulo e.t.j.Pastaj arvanitas ka te shperndare ne gjithe Athinen.Madje lagjia me vjeter ne Athine, qe ndodhet ne kembet e Akropolit quhet Plaka,ky emer i ka ngelur nga arvanitasit qe thonin Athina plake,kete ma ka pohuar dhe profesorja gjuhes ne shkolle.Arvanitas ka ne cdo krahine te Greqise,ka nje qytet te tere me arvanitas, Thiva, ku s'duhet te dish greqisht qe te merresh vesh.
    Me ka rastisur shume here te bisedoj me arvanitas ketu,shumica e pranojne qe jane me preardhje shqiptare dhe shume pak ato qe se pranojne.
    Politika greke ketu eshte shume e ashper me minoritetet.Ajo qe dua te them eshte se perdorin c'do menyre ,propoganden,dhunen,ndryshime te historise e.t.j vetem qe te thojne se jane nje popull i paster dhe pa pakica te huajsh.
    Prandaj s'duhet patur inat per ato arvanitas qe se pranojne qe jane shqiptare se jane viktima te propogandes greke.
    Na e knaqe shpirtin me kto q ke shkruar!
    Life's too short to remove USB safely.

  18. #18
    ILIR N GEN Maska e flory80
    Antarsuar
    03-12-2006
    Vendndodhja
    Buz Vjoss Kaltroshe
    Postime
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    Faleminderit
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    6 falenderime n 6 postime
    Citim Postuar m par nga gjergj arianiti Lexo Postimin
    Une nuk jetoj ne ate zone por rastesisht kam punuar per dy-tre muaj atje dhe qellova te flas me arvanitas SHQIP dhe ato me thane se ajo zone eshte plot me arvanitas.Ditet e para qe punoja atje, isha ne nje rruge me vila lluksoze dhe degjoj nje ze nga mbrapa qe me therret "o shok", por me theks te cuditshem, thash se do jet ndonje grek qe ka mesuar fjalen shok dhe ju afrova duke i folur greqisht, por ai per habine time me kthen ne shqip me theks grek.Ata qe me ben pershtypje ama, ishin nje familje arvanitese ku i jati them se e fliste shqipen me mire se mua, ishte rreth 70 vjec me sa mbaj mend, edhe gruaja e tij me djalin e flisnin por jo aq mire, me nusen e djalit nuk qelloi rasti te flisnim, sa per niperit me tha plaku qe nuk dinin por kishte qejf ti mesonte, te pakten disa llafe.
    Por ne Atiki(Athina me provincat perreth) ka dhe zona te tjera ku mund te thuash se popullsia derrmuese eshte arvanitase si psh Koropi,Peania,Markopulo e.t.j.Pastaj arvanitas ka te shperndare ne gjithe Athinen.Madje lagjia me vjeter ne Athine, qe ndodhet ne kembet e Akropolit quhet Plaka,ky emer i ka ngelur nga arvanitasit qe thonin Athina plake,kete ma ka pohuar dhe profesorja gjuhes ne shkolle.Arvanitas ka ne cdo krahine te Greqise,ka nje qytet te tere me arvanitas, Thiva, ku s'duhet te dish greqisht qe te merresh vesh.
    Me ka rastisur shume here te bisedoj me arvanitas ketu,shumica e pranojne qe jane me preardhje shqiptare dhe shume pak ato qe se pranojne.
    Politika greke ketu eshte shume e ashper me minoritetet.Ajo qe dua te them eshte se perdorin c'do menyre ,propoganden,dhunen,ndryshime te historise e.t.j vetem qe te thojne se jane nje popull i paster dhe pa pakica te huajsh.
    Prandaj s'duhet patur inat per ato arvanitas qe se pranojne qe jane shqiptare se jane viktima te propogandes greke.
    sht shum e vrtet q pr kto vende dhe qytete q prmende ti si Thiva q sht kthyer n kryeqndrn e rezistencs s Arvanitve, nga kjo qytez lindi dhe i pavdekshmi Aristidh Kolia. Aty kan lindur dhe jan formuar shum studiues dhe shkrimtar t shtjes Arvanitase, po ashtu ata kan lindur dhe shum kngtar q kndojn kngt Arvanite. Po ashtu nj qytet tjetr me popullsi Arvanite "Spata" nj ish katund q t gjitha toponimet rreth e prqark tij i kishte n Shqip si pr shembull fusha ku tani s fundmi u ndrtua aeroporti i ri i Athins. Kjo fush quhej "Liopza ose Lopza" domethn fusha ku kullosnin lopt, por Grekt kto 10 vjett e fundit u kan ndryshuar emrat mbi 60% t toponimeve me emra t vjetr Shqiptar.
    Pastaj nuk ka vetm fshatra dhe qytete por edhe ishuj t tr t banuar me Arvanitas si Salamina, Andors, Specie, Hidra, etj etj q nuk m vijn n mnd pr momentin. Dhe ata jan t terrorizuar dhe nuk e pranojn dot hapur q jan Shqiptar, por ata e pranojn n rrethe t ngushta shoqrore.
    Un t prshndes edhe nj her "gjergj arianiti" pr informacionet q ke sjell
    EH I ZIU NJERI, GLLTIT DIKU NJE LUG ORB T PRISHUR, EDHE VJELL PASTAJ PR GJITH JETN!

  19. #19
    2010 Triplete Maska e oliinter
    Antarsuar
    14-11-2004
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    me vjen mire per kete qe degjoj por une ketu ku punoj kam nje arianitas qe eshte grek dhe nuk e pranon kurre qe eshte shqiptar. pavaresisht se kur luajm futboll une e shaj gjithmon shqip dhe i vjen inat shume se ben gjasme nuk kupton shqip ndersa kur ja shaj nenen nxihet ne surrat.

    pak e veshtir per tu besuar qe greku leshon pe.
    vari leshte

  20. #20
    ILIR N GEN Maska e flory80
    Antarsuar
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    Hidhini nj sy ktij dokumentari t br nga Lirio Nushi!

    Arvanitt Arbror nj popull i harruar



    EH I ZIU NJERI, GLLTIT DIKU NJE LUG ORB T PRISHUR, EDHE VJELL PASTAJ PR GJITH JETN!

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